Pirate Ship Mafia II [Concluded]

[TinCow]

Maybe make people have to check for their gold totals? In the recent KotOR game at CFC I used to send PM results like this: 'You had 25 credits at the beginning of the game, you have received a payment of 3, so now you have 22 credits…' and most people never realised they had six credits missing. It was hilarious to GM that.

Nope, that won't work. The only people who wouldn't notice if they'd lost gold would be those who really weren't paying much attention to the game. Anyone who's actively trying to match up night orders/results to clear specific people from specific actions will be paying enough attention to know if they've lost gold.

[El Barto]

But they wouldn't know how (or when) they lost it.

How about my proposal for people to guard others' stashes?

[Zack]

TinCow -- I meant strictly in the sense of preventing having two people cleared publicly in such a manner. And at your other point, if the mafia have incentive to acquire wealth and thus to steal, that also eliminates stealing being a clearly "town" thing to do.

How about my proposal for people to guard others' stashes?

I don't like it. What kind of pirate guards someone else's gold? What would be the point?

[Montmorency]

And at your other point, if the mafia have incentive to acquire wealth and thus to steal, that also eliminates stealing being a clearly "town" thing to do.

Which is why the reveal should be retained.

[El Barto]

I don't like it. What kind of pirate guards someone else's gold? What would be the point?

You promise to guard someone else's stash. You don't have to actually do it. On the other hand, it might be good for teamwork.

Also, thinking out loud, if the mafia are forced to get gold, then maybe one of them is a perennial stash-guarder. Why would someone do so if they could be doing other stuff?

[Zack]

I'd also suggest not revealing in public when the mafia recruit. That caught me off guard (seeing it in the update).

[TinCow]

But they wouldn't know how (or when) they lost it.

Unless you introduce a way to lose money other than through stealing, they'll sure know how it was lost. They'll also know when it was lost by using math. The night when their previous total plus their new income from their action does not equal the result that's reported in the PM is the night they were stolen from. The people who will put in the effort to figure this stuff out are people like Zacc, ATPG, and I. If there's a way to deduce the information, it'll get out. You'll just make it harder and more obscure for everyone else to figure out, which will only focus the networks even more around those who are willing to do the deduction work.

And at your other point, if the mafia have incentive to acquire wealth and thus to steal, that also eliminates stealing being a clearly "town" thing to do.

Ah, I read it as an alternative, not an addition. Non-public reveals on stealing failure would be good. The same on solo vig attempts too (see Xeno). If there's to be a penalty for a failed anything, make it loss of gold or even a risk of death, ala Capo, rather than making it demonstrate night actions. And make the risk publicly known, ala Capo. I wouldn't have accused Makrell if I had known that solo vig attempts had a risk of a reveal of the attacker.

[El Barto]

Unless you introduce a way to lose money other than through stealing, they'll sure know how it was lost. They'll also know when it was lost by using math. The night when their previous total plus their new income from their action does not equal the result that's reported in the PM is the night they were stolen from. The people who will put in the effort to figure this stuff out are people like Zacc, ATPG, and I. If there's a way to deduce the information, it'll get out. You'll just make it harder and more obscure for everyone else to figure out, which will only focus the networks even more around those who are willing to do the deduction work.

Taxation, or delayed payments when someone says he'll pay but withdraws it or just can't afford to…

[NinjaCow64]

Roll to dodge!
12!

Visor does a barrel roll and Pizza's blunderbuss only rips up his shirt. Visor gains +3 sexyness.

-9001 I'm the host here! HAX DAMAGE!!!

TROLL TO DODGE (FAIL) MAXIMUM HAX DAMAGE!!! BLURRRG!!!

Pizza turns into a cat.

Visor loses 3 sexiness.

Sorry, where was I? Ah, that's right. Could the Spainish participate in vig groups? Because I'm not sure if they could or if they couldn't. If they couldn't, then they really should be able to in Pirate Mafia III.

[Zack]

The leaders of two vig groups were Spanish converts.

[El Barto]

And they still were in on hits on the Spanish scumbags.

[GeneralHankerchief]

And now, the roles!

I determined these the same way as I determined the roles in Pirate Ship Mafia I: I had written up all of the role PMs beforehand, and set them in a certain order. The secret roles came first, followed by the Guardacosta. The normal Able Seamen came next, followed by those with minor special abilities. All that remained was to put names to the roles. Gathering all the names from the sign-up sheet, I first alphabetized them. Going to random.org’s List Randomizer, I clicked the button three times to ensure true randomness. This is what came back to me:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Visorslash
Arjos
Edse
Double A
Jolt
Makrell
johnhughthom
BSmith
Lyra
TinCow
Zaccino
Montmorency
Diana Abnoba
a completely inoffensive name
Tiaexz
DaveShack
Ironside
Chaotix
NinjaCow64
Kagemusha
Xenoneb
autolycus
Kaiser Friedrich III
Askthepizzaguy
El Barto
Thermal
JoanK
Choxorn
issaikhaan
Buddhafish
topsecret (later replaced by Captain Blackadder)
Memnon
God Emperor
Ishmael

What now follows is a list of every role PM in the game, along with some brief commentary.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Frenchman
Sent to Visorslash

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Your role is:

The Frenchman

“La mer a bercé mon cœur pour la vie.”
~ Charles Trenet

Back home, you lived the high life. You were educated in the finest schools and knew nothing but the best of everything. Visits to the great new palace of Versailles under the reign of Louis XIV were not uncommon. But five years ago, the Sun King died, and life under his two-year-old great-grandson (and his regent) wasn’t the same. So you set off for the New World, seeking continued adventure. You acquired a sleek new ship, the Presence, to take you there and beyond. Once you got there, though, you lost your ship to an enterprising pirate captain in a bout of trickery. You have been trying to get it back ever since.

Three years ago, in the confusion after the sack of Charleston, you made an attempt to get it back, but failed. The attempt was not a complete waste though; aboard the ship, you met a woman posing as a man and the two of you fell in love. You were both able to get off the ship before you were killed or made to walk the plank, and together the two of you have been making plans for revenge ever since.

Finally, the time was ready to strike. Using your Old World contacts, you and your consort were able to acquire passage on the Spanish Treasure Fleet headed for home. You were able to leak information about just how juicy of a target this Fleet was to Nassau, confident that the Presence wouldn’t be able to pass up such an opportunity. You were correct. As the men of the Presence boarded and fought for the treasure on the fleet, you and your consort were able to steal aboard, ready to make another attempt at getting your ship back. This time, you’re confident that you will not fail.

Your goal: To survive, and to be in command of the Presence at game’s end. You may tell the other sailors whatever you wish to accomplish this mission, for this is the only way you can personally obtain a victory.

You will obtain a higher level of victory if your consort manages to survive along with you, however, it will not be gamebreaking if she dies.

Your consort is PLAYER.

Powers: A dashing swashbuckler in the prime of your life, you have several skill sets that will serve your well during your time aboard:
- You may kill one person a night without the help of a partner or group. As always, your trusty rapier, a gift from the Count of Toulouse himself, is with you.
- You may team up with your consort to kill one target per night that blasts through protection, though you will have some difficulties if the target has strong protection (multiple/larger than minimum groups).
- You may investigate one person a night. Results may vary.
- You may participate in town group activities.
- If at any point during the game you and your consort have at least 400 gold between you, you can pool your gold and outright bribe the Captain at night for his position. The Captain will be so overwhelmed by this offer that he will automatically accept.
- Keeping in line with your adventurous personality, you may not perform the same action more than three phases in a row.

Finally, as a result of your skill with a rapier and overall flamboyance, you will probably survive the first kill attempt somebody makes on you without protection. Good luck!

After the original Frenchman was played so brilliantly by TinCow in the first Pirate Ship Mafia, I had to bring him back for an encore. However, I made several adjustments. While in the first game the Frenchman was an interesting wrinkle, TinCow never really had a chance at achieving his goal. In this game, I aimed to upgrade him into a legitimate threat to the Captaincy.

This happened in several ways. First of all, I paired him with a partner from the beginning – Arjos, in the consort role. Together, the two of them would be able to blast through protection and (ideally) work in unison to get a good handle of what was going on in the ship – basically, the Frenchman had a ready-made ally. Furthermore, I added a wrinkle where instead of taking a bunch of risks and trying to take out officers, the Frenchman and his Consort could acquire the Captaincy through collecting a lump sum of gold, at which point a mechanic would trigger that the Captain would be automatically bribed. Alas, Arjos died early on so this was never a realistic option for Visor.

Finally, I altered the Frenchman’s victory conditions. In Pirate Ship I, if the game ended with the Frenchman as Captain, everybody but him lost, including the town. In this iteration, the town still would have won had he become Captain. In fact, there was literally only one person with whom Visor’s victory conditions conflicted with at the start of the game: the Spanish Special Officer (see the Guardacosta Lieutenant role PM for more details).

How did all of this work out? Obviously, Visor lost. However, he had a far greater shot at the Captaincy at one point than TinCow ever did. BSmith’s decision to remain loyal to Zaccino rather than chasing gold on N4 was the only reason that Visor was denied his prize.

Overall, the Frenchman role is designed to create a stir, play both sides, and take big risks when necessary, and Visorslash did all of this. I’m glad the role once again made a big impact on the game and I’m very happy that the role will once again live on.

The Frenchman’s Consort
Sent to Arjos

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Your role is:

The Frenchman’s Consort

“Somewhere beyond the sea/Somewhere, waiting for me/My lover stands on golden sands.”
~ Bobby Darin

Three years ago, you joined the crew of the Presence in disguise, seeking adventure. Instead, you found love. On a return home to Nassau as the crew was finishing up dealing with British agents and saboteurs from another pirate ship who wanted treasure for themselves, you met up with a dashing Frenchman and instantly fell for him. The attraction was mutual.

The two of you managed to get off the ship safely, and ever since, you have been plotting to get your lover’s ship back (it was originally his to begin with). Additionally, he has been teaching you important skills that will help you get along in this rough-and-tumble world of pirates; unlike three years ago, you will actually be able to fend for yourself.

Finally, the time is ready to strike. In the confusion of the battle with the Spanish Treasure Fleet, you and your love have managed to slip aboard the Presence and reclaim it for yourselves. This time, you are prepared. This time, you will not fail.

Your goal: To survive, and to see your love hold the position of Captain at game’s end. You will meet a lesser victory condition if you both survive but the Frenchman fails to become Captain. Should the Frenchman die, you will receive a new set of goals, but no matter what, your final outcome will be lower than what it would have been had he remained alive.

The Frenchman is PLAYER.

Powers: Your womanly charms that you had three years ago are still available to you, newly-augmented with additional abilities picked up from three years of training with the Frenchman.
- Every night, you may seduce and “occupy” one person for the night, which also serves as making them unable to perform any action that night as well. While they’re not looking, you will steal some of their treasure, which will be a random number anywhere from 5-20. In addition, you will also see how much treasure they have left.
- You may team up with the Frenchman to kill one target per night that blasts through protection, though you will have some difficulties if the target has strong protection (multiple/larger than minimum groups).
- You are listed as susceptible to Letters of Marque, which means there is a possibility that the Spanish Guardacosta may come calling. No matter what, your affiliation will not change.
- You may participate in town group activities.
- If at any point during the game you and the Frenchman have at least 400 gold between you, you can pool your gold and outright bribe the Captain at night for his position. The Captain will be so overwhelmed by this offer that he will automatically accept.

Finally… good luck!

In-universe, this is the same person as “The Woman” from the first game. While in Pirate Ship Mafia I, this role was strictly a thief/roleblocker, I upgraded her powers in this one so that she could kill and do townie things as well.

Furthermore, there was a mechanic that if the Frenchman died while his Consort was still alive, she would become a serial killer and have a new goal of killing a set amount of people on board before she either went down with the ship or abandoned ship and tried to start a new life. Alas, Arjos died very early on and all of it was for naught. This is easily my biggest disappointment of the game.

I was planning for a while on having the role survive for the epilogue (notice in the writeup about how Arjos was just tossed overboard without any real fatal wounds), but ultimately decided against it.

Drunken Pirate
Sent to edse

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Your role is:

Drunken Pirate

“There’s naught, no doubt, so much the spirit calms as rum and true religion.”
~ Lord Byron

It’s well-known that every self-respecting pirate loves his rum. However, some take to it more than others, taking to the stuff like bees take to nectar. There’s usually one person on every ship who feeds off the stuff. On the Presence, that person is you.

You’re a good and loyal sailor, but your dependency on rum for your survival has produced some rather unpredictable quirks. Some of these are no doubt beneficial to you and the crew, but some others are… not quite as beneficial.

Your goal: Your goals generally line up with the townie goals, which is the acquisition of the most gold as possible, as well as a Presence victory.

Powers: Fueled by the rum, there is nothing you can’t accomplish.
- You may participate in the usual townie groups for treasure. However…
- You are worth two normal Able Seamen in group actions. This means that you only need one other person to take part in a protection group, and two other people to take part in a vigilante group.
- If at any point your treasure is stolen at night, you may spend one night generally investigating the ship. At the end of the night phase you will find out who took your gold and you will be able to solo-kill them the following night. In a drunken rage, you will take all 50 gold from the target, thus overriding any will they may have made.
- Due to your free-spirited personality, you don’t take to authority very well. Therefore, you are not allowed to take part in actions ordered or sanctioned from the ship’s officers.
- Rum does not last forever. If you wish to retain these powers, you must spend one night out of every four doing nothing but drinking, otherwise you will revert to normal townie powers (albeit you’re still not allowed to take orders from the officers). The first night you must drink in order to retain your powers is Night 4, though you may do so earlier if you wish. You will regain your powers if you ever lose them at any time by simply drinking at night.
- The first night *after* you drink, you will be partially immune to kill attempts.

Finally, you are able to Abandon Ship should you so desire to, but you had better time your escape exactly right, otherwise you will quickly run out of rum. Good luck!

edse’s Drunken Pirate replaced the completely unnecessary anti-mutiny Fanatical Loyalist role from the first game. In its place seemed a haphazard collection of powers, but they were important ones to me for balancing purposes.

My tweaks for this game led me to worry about a couple of things: the power of the networks as well as an overabundance of stealing. The Drunken Pirate role was designed to address both, being specifically barred from taking part in officer-sanctioned actions and being able to seek out and destroy anyone who stole from his personal stash.

All in all, I’m not entirely sure this role met its goals. A few people stole every night, but edse was never targeted, meaning I would never be able to make a kill entry in a writeup that screamed “THIS IS THE CONSEQUENCE OF STEALING FROM OTHER PIRATES”, and Zaccino’s network simply let edse be without any consequence for either side.

All of that said, edse certainly did well for himself, accomplishing the role’s goals and racking up a cool 213 gold, good enough for fourth place overall.

Spanish Special Officer
Sent to Double A

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Your role is:

Spanish Special Officer

“Those who’ll play with cats must expect to be scratched.”
~ Miguel de Cervantes

For over a century, Spain’s empire in the New World has been preyed on by the other European colonial powers and the scum of the earth men they hired to carry out their work for them. In a word, they were successful at this. As Spain faced problems at home, New Spain rotted from the inside. Things have changed in the last several decades, though. With peace finally achieved in Europe, government-sanctioned privateers became a thing of the past, leaving the only real threat in the Caribbean being the pirates.

In response, the Guardacosta was formed, proving to be a far more effective method of combatting piracy than anything the Spanish had tried before. You, a proud man of Spain willing to do anything to serve his country, have risen through the ranks and now command two men designed for more… undercover operations.

The three of you were stationed on the Treasure Fleet to make sure that everything in the process went smoothly. Things were going fine until the Presence struck. In the confusion of the boarding, you and your lieutenants managed to slip aboard. Your goal now is to eliminate every last one of these miserable scumbags and return the treasure to its rightful owner: His Majesty King Philip V of Spain.

Your goal: You are an incorruptible man of Spain (more than can be said for many in the Guardacosta) and thus treasure is not a motivational factor for you at all. Your singular mission is to eliminate or subordinate every single non-Spanish affiliated person aboard the ship. You must survive with one original Guardacosta agent.

Your Lieutenants in helping you accomplish this task are PLAYER and PLAYER.

Powers: Every night, you may accomplish one of the following tasks:
- Investigate two persons a night to determine susceptibility to Letters of Marque. This is a unique power available only to you.
- Team up with a fellow Guardacosta agent to kill one person a night. However, if you are the only agent left, you may kill solo.
- Go out individually and offer a Letter of Marque to one person. If your target is susceptible to Letters of Marque, they will join your team and become a Guardacosta Convert. If your target is NOT susceptible, then you stand a chance of being discovered.
- Participate in town group activities (including protection).

You may NOT Abandon Ship under any circumstances. To do so is unthinkable to an honorable man of Spain such as yourself.

Additionally, your officer training has served you well. The first time you are attacked in the first three nights, you will (probably) fend your attackers off regardless of numbers. However, sea life eventually takes its toll, and starting the fourth night you will lose this ability.

Lastly, before you took this mission, your superior officer mentioned that a particular Frenchman of some nobility was aboard the Treasure Fleet, apparently heading home. You lost track of him in the confusion but will still keep your eye out for him. You do not mention this to your Lieutenants as they as this information is below their pay grade and frankly, you don’t entirely trust them. Good luck!

As previously mentioned, this was the only role in the game that would be unable to win with the Frenchman at the start of the game, hence the warning about him in the final paragraph of the role PM. Double A had two absolutely beautiful conversions early on, getting access to both the Four Horsemen and the mercenary group, but then his activity fizzled much to Diana’s and Chaotix’s exasperation.

This role was left essentially unchanged from its counterpart in Pirate Ship I, the British Special Officer, and both roles shared the same fate of an eventual vigilante kill in N5. A sample size of 2 isn’t much bigger than one of 1, but I still believe that the mafia’s bad luck in both games comes down to that of luck. However, I’m less confident about this than I was at the start of the game.

Guardacosta Lieutenant
Sent to Jolt, Makrell

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Your role is:

Guardacosta Lieutenant

“We Spaniards know a sickness of the heart that only gold can cure.”
~ Hernando Cortez

The Spanish Guardacosta (Coast Guard) was created for situations exactly like this: hunting down and destroying the pirate scum that continues to plague New Spain. Under the command of your Special Officer, you are one of two lieutenants who snuck aboard the Presence in the confusion of their boarding action against the Treasure Fleet. Some of the pirates aboard may still be redeemed with the right motivation, but you know that in order to be successful you are going to have to spill a lot of blood.

Your goal: Your singular mission is to eliminate or subordinate every single non-Spanish affiliated person aboard the ship. You must survive with one original Guardacosta agent.

Your fellow Lieutenant is PLAYER. Your Special Officer is PLAYER.

Powers: Every night, you may accomplish one of the following tasks:
- Team up with a fellow Guardacosta agent to kill one person a night. However, if you are the only agent left, you may kill solo.
- Go out individually and offer a Letter of Marque to one person. If your target is susceptible to Letters of Marque (as determined by the Special Officer, or just as a blind risk), they will join your team and become a Guardacosta Convert. If your target is NOT susceptible, then you stand a chance of being discovered.
- Participate in town group activities (including protection).

The following information is not to be shared with your Special Officer under any circumstances:

You and your fellow Lieutenant are not so morally inflexible as your Special Officer. An alternative victory condition for the two of you is, like the pirates, the acquisition of as much gold as possible. If it does not look like the mission is going well, or if your Special Officer is dead, you and your partner may go rogue and either directly compete for treasure with the rest of the crew or Abandon Ship and cast your fates to the winds. Beware, for should you choose this route and fail to acquire enough gold, or if you are discovered, you will have a worse ending than if you had remained with your original team. This victory condition cannot be pursued with the Special Officer still alive.

Lastly… good luck!

The first game had two mafia factions: one where gold was no factor at all, and one where gold was a very large factor in recruitment. I combined the two to some extent into the Guardacosta. The red text was there in case Double A - the only person who could scan for susceptibility to Letters of Marque – went down, so the Lieutenants would have an alternate victory condition. This would also allow them to pair up with the Frenchman in order to cause havoc.

There’s already been some discussion in the postgame about allowing the mafia to steal gold when doing non-group activities at night in addition to their actual activity, which sounds logical and, if I had to host Pirate Ship III tomorrow, I’d probably put in.

Guardacosta Convert
Sent to Chaotix, Diana Abnoba

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Your new role is:

Guardacosta Convert

“Our sands be all but run. Where’s the harm in joining the winning sides?”
~ Hector Barbossa

Last night, you were visited by a member of the Guardacosta, saying that he was offering a chance to spare you in exchange for joining up with him and his men and assisting in returning the Presence’s treasure haul to Mother Spain. The man was… persuasive. Quickly realizing a good deal when you saw one, you signed up and received a shiny new Letter of Marque in return. You are now an official member of the Guardacosta, and boy does it feel good to have the law on your side for once.

Your goal: Your singular mission is to eliminate or subordinate every single non-Spanish affiliated person aboard the ship. Should all of the original Guardacosta agents die, you will commit suicide out of shame for having so readily abandoned your original comrades.

The agent who recruited you is PLAYER.

Powers: Every night, you may accomplish one of the following tasks:
- Team up with a fellow Guardacosta agent to kill one person a night. However, if you are the only agent left, you may kill solo.
- Go out individually and offer a Letter of Marque to one person. If your target is susceptible to Letters of Marque (as determined by the Special Officer, or just as a blind risk), they will join your team and become a Guardacosta Convert. If your target is NOT susceptible, then you stand a chance of being discovered.
- Participate in town group activities (including protection).

Lastly… good luck!

I debated on whether or not to make conversions public in the writeups. One or two of you have said not to do it, what do the rest of you guys think?

Able Seaman (basic)
Sent to johnhughthom, BSmith, Lyra, TinCow, Zaccino, Montmorency, Andres, Diana Abnoba, a completely inoffensive name, Tiaexz, DaveShack, Ironside, Chaotix, NinjaCow64, Kagemusha, Xenoneb, autolycus, Kaiser Friedrich III, Askthepizzaguy

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Your role is:

Able Seaman (townie)

“A merry life and a short one shall be my motto.”
~ Bart Roberts

Welcome aboard! You signed onto the crew of the Presence seeking treasure and adventure, and boy, are you getting both. You fought well in the boarding action against the Spanish Treasure Fleet and now possess a king’s ransom of treasure just waiting to be spent in Nassau… provided you get back alive, for it is apparent that the dreaded Guardacosta has snuck agents aboard. It is going to take some work if you ever want to see dry land again, but you’re confident in your abilities. Besides, history is on your side. The last time the Presence was in such danger, it was ordinary crewmen such as yourselves – not the officers - that was the biggest factor in the ship making it home, taking down four enemies in random vigilante hits. Not bad for the unwashed masses, eh?

Your goals: You have two main goals, each of which is equally important.

First of all, you want to eliminate every last threat on board the Presence. Naturally, this threat comes mainly in the shape of the Guardacosta but there could be other enemies looming…

Secondly, you want to acquire as much gold for yourself as possible. While there will most likely be a winning faction on Pirate Ship Mafia, in essence there can only be one *true* winner, and that’s whoever has the most gold. However, you will also score well if you survive and stay on board period, accumulate a lot of treasure before dying, or abandon ship with a lot of treasure and the Presence crew ends up losing.

You will not score so well if you die early on, abandon ship with little treasure, or abandon ship and later witness the Presence crew win.

If there is a Presence victory, the game will end the first night there are no kill attempts after all outside threats have been eliminated.

Powers: Each night, you may perform one of the following actions:
- Sleep. This means you will do nothing for the night. However, still sending in the order will net you a small gain in treasure.
- Protect a target with a group of at least three people, including yourself. The chances for a successful protection increase with numbers. All orders must match for a successful protection. You will be awarded the full amount of treasure if the target is still alive at the end of the night, even if he is not attacked.
- Kill a target with a group of at least four people, including yourself. The chances for a successful kill increase with numbers. All orders must match for a successful kill.
- Individually steal gold from a target of your choice. You will receive anywhere from 5-20 gold, unless your target is guarding his gold.
- Choose to guard your stash of gold. Should anyone try to steal from gold the nights you are guarding, they will be unsuccessful and their identity will publicly be revealed.
- If offered an event by me, you may choose to take part in that event as opposed to your normal night actions. Further details will follow in my “event” PM.
- Abandon Ship: Leave the Presence with all of your treasure. Abandoning ship means you depart the game permanently, so choose wisely when you do this.

In addition, you may perform the following actions during the day:
- Vote to determine who will walk the plank.
- Vote for a new Captain on Day 1 and whenever else it is necessary.
- In addition to this, you may also try to remove the Captain by voting for a mutiny. The proper way to do this in the thread is Vote: Mutiny. If 50% or more of living players vote for a mutiny, the Captain is removed from his position and executed along with whoever has the most votes. You automatically gain 10 treasure for a successful mutiny, plus the Captain’s entire stash of gold is evenly divided up among mutineers. In addition, only those who mutinied will be eligible to select the next Captain.

At any time, you may privately send me a Will detailing who your treasure goes to in the event of your death. You will automatically lose 50 treasure upon dying, but you can dictate who that treasure goes to, if anybody. Wills will only be considered valid if they are sent to me/updated at least three hours prior to your death.

Furthermore, you are allowed to transfer small amounts of treasure between crew members. The caveats to this are that is a maximum 10 treasure per person per day, the transfer must be for services rendered, and the services must be publicly available (in other words, no breaking the game by pooling all of your gold into one source).

Lastly… good luck!

The main difference between the Able Seaman’s powers from game to game was the addition of the steal/guard mechanic which, while fun, could use some work for future games. I wanted to make the pursuit of treasure more important for this game, but I don’t think I quite got there.

Susceptibility was determined by a further randomization of names once all the roles were set. Of all 29 Able Seamen, 10 could be converted. These were johnhughthom, Lyra, TinCow, Diana Abnoba, Tiaexz, Chaotix, Thermal, JoanK, Memnon, and Ishmael.

Able Seaman (with “strong” bonus)
Sent to El Barto, Thermal, JoanK, Choxorn, issaikhaan

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Your role is:

Able Seaman (townie)

“Do what you want ‘cause a pirate is free/You are a pirate!”
~ Lazy Town

Welcome aboard! You signed onto the crew of the Presence seeking treasure and adventure, and boy, are you getting both. You fought well in the boarding action against the Spanish Treasure Fleet and now possess a king’s ransom of treasure just waiting to be spent in Nassau… provided you get back alive, for it is apparent that the dreaded Guardacosta has snuck agents aboard. It is going to take some work if you ever want to see dry land again, but you’re confident in your abilities. Besides, history is on your side. The last time the Presence was in such danger, it was ordinary crewmen such as yourselves – not the officers - that was the biggest factor in the ship making it home, taking down four enemies in random vigilante hits. Not bad for the unwashed masses, eh?

Your goals: You have two main goals, each of which is equally important.

First of all, you want to eliminate every last threat on board the Presence. Naturally, this threat comes mainly in the shape of the Guardacosta but there could be other enemies looming…

Secondly, you want to acquire as much gold for yourself as possible. While there will most likely be a winning faction on Pirate Ship Mafia, in essence there can only be one *true* winner, and that’s whoever has the most gold. However, you will also score well if you survive and stay on board period, accumulate a lot of treasure before dying, or abandon ship with a lot of treasure and the Presence crew ends up losing.

You will not score so well if you die early on, abandon ship with little treasure, or abandon ship and later witness the Presence crew win.

If there is a Presence victory, the game will end the first night there are no kill attempts after all outside threats have been eliminated.

Powers: Each night, you may perform one of the following actions:
- Sleep. This means you will do nothing for the night. However, still sending in the order will net you a small gain in treasure.
- Protect a target with a group of at least three people, including yourself. The chances for a successful protection increase with numbers. All orders must match for a successful protection. You will be awarded the full amount of treasure if the target is still alive at the end of the night, even if he is not attacked.
- Kill a target with a group of at least four people, including yourself. The chances for a successful kill increase with numbers. All orders must match for a successful kill.
- Individually steal gold from a target of your choice. You will receive anywhere from 5-20 gold, unless your target is guarding his gold.
- Choose to guard your stash of gold. Should anyone try to steal from gold the nights you are guarding, they will be unsuccessful and their identity will publicly be revealed.
- If offered an event by me, you may choose to take part in that event as opposed to your normal night actions. Further details will follow in my “event” PM.
- Abandon Ship: Leave the Presence with all of your treasure. Abandoning ship means you depart the game permanently, so choose wisely when you do this.

In addition, you may perform the following actions during the day:
- Vote to determine who will walk the plank.
- Vote for a new Captain on Day 1 and whenever else it is necessary.
- In addition to this, you may also try to remove the Captain by voting for a mutiny. The proper way to do this in the thread is Vote: Mutiny. If 50% or more of living players vote for a mutiny, the Captain is removed from his position and executed along with whoever has the most votes. You automatically gain 10 treasure for a successful mutiny, plus the Captain’s entire stash of gold is evenly divided up among mutineers. In addition, only those who mutinied will be eligible to select the next Captain.

At any time, you may privately send me a Will detailing who your treasure goes to in the event of your death. You will automatically lose 50 treasure upon dying, but you can dictate who that treasure goes to, if anybody. Wills will only be considered valid if they are sent to me/updated at least three hours prior to your death.

Furthermore, you are allowed to transfer small amounts of treasure between crew members. The caveats to this are that is a maximum 10 treasure per person per day, the transfer must be for services rendered, and the services must be publicly available (in other words, no breaking the game by pooling all of your gold into one source).

Lastly, you are stronger than many men on board and thus you can defend yourself better than a lot of these scurvy landlubbers. Any time a minimum group of players attacks you, you stand a 50% chance of survival. This ability does not expire. Good luck!

The random gods were not kind to those who received this 50% survival bonus, as it failed literally every single time it was called into use. Most interestingly was the case of Choxorn, whose “strong” bonus stacked with his 50% officer’s survival bonus, leaving him a 75% chance of surviving an attack at night as First Mate. He was still dispatched by Visorslash, attacking solo, on N2.

Able Seaman (with “food” bonus)
Sent to Buddhafish, topsecret (later Captain Blackadder), Memnon, God Emperor, Ishmael

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Your role is:

Able Seaman (townie)

“Over the seas, we shall ride/Searching for treasure into the night.”
~ Alestorm

Welcome aboard! You signed onto the crew of the Presence seeking treasure and adventure, and boy, are you getting both. You fought well in the boarding action against the Spanish Treasure Fleet and now possess a king’s ransom of treasure just waiting to be spent in Nassau… provided you get back alive, for it is apparent that the dreaded Guardacosta has snuck agents aboard. It is going to take some work if you ever want to see dry land again, but you’re confident in your abilities. Besides, history is on your side. The last time the Presence was in such danger, it was ordinary crewmen such as yourselves – not the officers - that was the biggest factor in the ship making it home, taking down four enemies in random vigilante hits. Not bad for the unwashed masses, eh?

Your goals: You have two main goals, each of which is equally important.

First of all, you want to eliminate every last threat on board the Presence. Naturally, this threat comes mainly in the shape of the Guardacosta but there could be other enemies looming…

Secondly, you want to acquire as much gold for yourself as possible. While there will most likely be a winning faction on Pirate Ship Mafia, in essence there can only be one *true* winner, and that’s whoever has the most gold. However, you will also score well if you survive and stay on board period, accumulate a lot of treasure before dying, or abandon ship with a lot of treasure and the Presence crew ends up losing.

You will not score so well if you die early on, abandon ship with little treasure, or abandon ship and later witness the Presence crew win.

If there is a Presence victory, the game will end the first night there are no kill attempts after all outside threats have been eliminated.

Powers: Each night, you may perform one of the following actions:
- Sleep. This means you will do nothing for the night. However, still sending in the order will net you a small gain in treasure.
- Protect a target with a group of at least three people, including yourself. The chances for a successful protection increase with numbers. All orders must match for a successful protection. You will be awarded the full amount of treasure if the target is still alive at the end of the night, even if he is not attacked.
- Kill a target with a group of at least four people, including yourself. The chances for a successful kill increase with numbers. All orders must match for a successful kill.
- Individually steal gold from a target of your choice. You will receive anywhere from 5-20 gold, unless your target is guarding his gold.
- Choose to guard your stash of gold. Should anyone try to steal from gold the nights you are guarding, they will be unsuccessful and their identity will publicly be revealed.
- If offered an event by me, you may choose to take part in that event as opposed to your normal night actions. Further details will follow in my “event” PM.
- Abandon Ship: Leave the Presence with all of your treasure. Abandoning ship means you depart the game permanently, so choose wisely when you do this.

In addition, you may perform the following actions during the day:
- Vote to determine who will walk the plank.
- Vote for a new Captain on Day 1 and whenever else it is necessary.
- In addition to this, you may also try to remove the Captain by voting for a mutiny. The proper way to do this in the thread is Vote: Mutiny. If 50% or more of living players vote for a mutiny, the Captain is removed from his position and executed along with whoever has the most votes. You automatically gain 10 treasure for a successful mutiny, plus the Captain’s entire stash of gold is evenly divided up among mutineers. In addition, only those who mutinied will be eligible to select the next Captain.

At any time, you may privately send me a Will detailing who your treasure goes to in the event of your death. You will automatically lose 50 treasure upon dying, but you can dictate who that treasure goes to, if anybody. Wills will only be considered valid if they are sent to me/updated at least three hours prior to your death.

Furthermore, you are allowed to transfer small amounts of treasure between crew members. The caveats to this are that is a maximum 10 treasure per person per day, the transfer must be for services rendered, and the services must be publicly available (in other words, no breaking the game by pooling all of your gold into one source).

Lastly, you have been secretly stealing rations for a while now and as a result are better fed than most of the sailors. This doesn’t really have an effect on you from the outset, but as time wears on and life as you know it starts breaking down, you will be in a better position to deal with it than most of the crew. As a result, if you are attacked anytime from Nights 5-8, you stand a 50% chance of survival. Good luck!

The players with the “food” bonus also got first crack at the “opportunities” I had drawn up, as I would going from the bottom up on the player list while handing them out. First in line was Ishmael, who actually got the “Census Taker” opportunity that you’ll see a little bit below this.

Captain

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You have been elected to:

Captain

“It was better being a Commander than a common Man.”
~ Charles Johnson

The Presence has seen many captains over the years, and you are now the latest to hold that position. Congratulations! However, you have your work cut out for you. There are agents of the dreaded Guardacosta aboard determined to kill everyone on board and reclaim your hard-won treasure for Mother Spain. In addition, nobody ever said that shepherding a crew of drunken, rowdy pirates was going to be easy. However, with the office comes some powers that make your life somewhat better.

Your goals: Your goals remain the same as they were before you took office. You will not be able to be converted while in office, even if you are susceptible to Letters of Marque.

Powers: As Captain, your main powers are of delegation and placing your trust in the right people. However, you do have a couple of your own abilities to be used when they’re really needed.

- If you have not done so already, you must make your choice of who is to be your First Mate and Quartermaster. Your First Mate can kill one person or investigate two persons per night, and the Quartermaster can individually protect or roleblock one person per night. You may replace these two officers at will.
- You personally cannot be killed at night. The only way you can die is if your crew mutinies against you, or if you resign the Captaincy for some reason and get killed the normal way.
- You may still take part in night actions as usual. However, your treasure count for performing any such activities will be wiped away.
- Instead, your salary as Captain is 15 pieces of treasure a night (plus 2 for submitting a night order).
- Naturally, for the duration of your Captaincy, you cannot Abandon Ship. Doing so would violate every code of honor you have ever heard of, pirate or not.
- You have no vote, however you will still gain the 3 pieces of treasure for making a post in the day phase. Should there be a tie, it will be up to you and your officers to break the tie. Each of you has one equal vote in this. Should you and your Officers be deadlocked, you have the final tiebreaking vote.

Lastly, you have a one-time power in the Captain’s Prerogative ability. Once in the game, you may go out at night and personally kill one target of your choice. This is the only guaranteed kill in the entire game and will override any and all forms of protection the target may have. In addition, you will be publicly announced as the killer in the writeup. This ability will not be recycled should a new Captain be elected, so make it count. Good luck!

To be honest, Zaccino was never supposed to survive this game. The bonus for mutinies was hugely increased, the Frenchman became more powerful, the one event I had down the pipeline at game’s end was designed to cause dissention, and there was (what I thought) a larger emphasis placed on gold acquisition. However, Zaccino played N4, the time where he was most in danger, brilliantly, either neutralizing or gaining control of multiple factions at once. The short game benefitted him overall.

Also interesting to note, the one-off Captain’s Prerogative has now been used on ATPG for both games.

First Mate

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You have been appointed to:

First Mate

“Heaven, you fool? Did you ever hear of any pirates going thither?”
~ Thomas Sutton, shortly before his execution

Congratulations on your promotion! As long as you hold this position, you’re trading in a life of drunken debauchery for one of trying to keep order and making sure that the ship does not completely fall into the hands of the Guardacosta or other enemies. You think you prefer the debauchery, though you can’t complain about the pay rate.

Your goals: Your goals remain the same as they were before you took office. You will not be able to be converted while in office, even if you are susceptible to Letters of Marque.

Powers: Your nighttime abilities as First Mate override those you had previously. Upon your removal from office, you will get your original powers back.

- If you are attacked at night, you stand a 50% chance of dying before factoring in protections, larger-than-usual kill groups, and the like. This immunity may be reduced or eliminated in the endgame at my discretion.
- You may kill one person per night on your own.
- Alternatively, you may investigate two people per night to determine their actions and other information. The first investigation will reveal the target’s actions that night. The second will reveal their susceptibility to Letters of Marque. The third will reveal their true affiliation as well as provide a list of activities they have been up to through the current night.
- If you wish, you may choose to only investigate one person per night to immediately jump to Tier 2 results on the target.
- Your salary as First Mate is 12 treasure per night. This overrides any treasure you would have ordinarily received for night actions, however, you still get the 2 per night you get for submitting an order.
- Unlike the Captain, you have a vote in the daily proceedings. If there is a tie vote, you, the Captain, and the Quartermaster will vote to break the tie. If the three of you cannot break that tie (say, each of you votes to execute a different person), then the Captain has the final say.
- So long as you hold this office, you cannot Abandon Ship.

Lastly, in addition to your orders, you have the option to leave the Captain vulnerable at night. This is not the default option – i.e. you must specifically let me know that you are doing this. If both you and the Quartermaster choose to leave the Captain vulnerable for a night, then the protection his office provides is removed and he is liable to be murdered at night. However, you cannot be the one to deliver the killing blow – the Captain must be murdered by an outside source. The Captain does not know about this ability. Good luck!

In the first game, Captain Crazed Rabbit had his trusted right-hand-man in Louis VI the Fat, who was ultimately CR’s greatest ally in ridding the ship of both mafia threats. Here, after a couple of false starts, Zaccino found his Louis in BSmith, who played an even more critical role. In the important N4, Visorslash had a coup all set to go, and Quartermaster ATPG was on board if BSmith was. Ultimately, BSmith sided with loyalty over treasure, the coup failed, ATPG died, and Zaccino all but won the game right there.

Interestingly, BSmith – the only pro-town investigator in the game – never even bothered to scan his Captain once. A risky move, but it turned out well for everyone this time.

Quartermaster

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You have been appointed to:

Quartermaster

“I hear a word out of any of you that you ain’t helping me out or taking your leave, I will shoot you down. Get to work!”
~ Malcolm Reynolds

The Quartermaster is generally in charge of keeping order and instilling discipline on a ship, and the Presence is no exception. Discipline on a pirate ship, you say? Fine, we’ll see how long *you* last without discipline when the Guardacosta are out for blood. In the face of adversity, your position is more important than ever and it could very well be that timely execution of your powers could swing the game in your team’s favor.

Your goals: Your goals remain the same as they were before you took office. You will not be able to be converted while in office, even if you are susceptible to Letters of Marque.

Powers: Your nighttime abilities as Quartermaster override those you had previously. Upon your removal from office, you will get your original powers back.

- If you are attacked at night, you stand a 50% chance of dying before factoring in protections, larger-than-usual kill groups, and the like. This immunity may be reduced or eliminated in the endgame at my discretion.
- You may protect one person per night on your own.
- Alternatively, you may throw one person into the brig (prevent them from doing anything at night) per night. As a by-product of throwing them into the brig, you will also gain an accurate report of that person’s treasure count.
- Your salary as Quartermaster is 12 treasure per night. This overrides any treasure you would have ordinarily received for night actions, however, you still get the 2 per night you get for submitting an order.
- Unlike the Captain, you have a vote in the daily proceedings. If there is a tie vote, you, the Captain, and the First Mate will vote to break the tie. If the three of you cannot break that tie (say, each of you votes to execute a different person), then the Captain has the final say.
- So long as you hold this office, you cannot Abandon Ship.

Lastly, in addition to your orders, you have the option to leave the Captain vulnerable at night. This is not the default option – i.e. you must specifically let me know that you are doing this. If both you and the First Mate choose to leave the Captain vulnerable for a night, then the protection his office provides is removed and he is liable to be murdered at night. However, you cannot be the one to deliver the killing blow – the Captain must be murdered by an outside source. The Captain does not know about this ability. Good luck!

This was more of a “you’re in the Captain’s confidence” position than one of actual power in this game. Ishmael looked to be in hot water early on when he was roleblocked and there was a solo-kill that failed on the same night, but the two were entirely unrelated. I’m sure that BSmith, ATPG, and TinCow appreciated the salary though.

The only event PM that ended up getting sent
Sent to Ishmael

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The following PM is a special in-game opportunity and its contents are not to be mentioned to anyone during the course of play aside from the fact that it is an in-game opportunity.

As the Presence sails closer to home, you are reminded of a duty that the previous (now deceased) Captain tasked you with before he died in the raid on the Spanish Treasure fleet.

Nobody enjoys taking inventory, especially not pirates, but it is a necessary evil. Before the raid, you were the unlucky sailor charged with taking the inventory of the treasure brought in from the raid. Five days in, with all of the rampant chaos and intrigue that has gone on, it seems that most people have forgotten about it. But not you. You see, the previous Captain promised you an extra share for your work: 30 treasure's worth. You figure that, even with the post-regime change, it would be easy to get your hands on that gold with your new duties.

If you choose to accept this opportunity, you will spend your next two night actions "taking inventory" at the expense of doing anything else. After the second night, you will be paid 30 treasure for your work and the entire crew of the Presence will see the exact treasure amount of the top 10 richest crewmen to that point in the voyage. After all, increased transparency can only be a good thing for everyone, right?

This was a two-night action. I sent it on D5, meaning that Ishmael would spend N5 and N6 taking inventory. The game ended on N6. Ideally, the plan was to post the list of treasure, see how far out in front the Captain was, and get the greedy players to push for a mutiny. Alas, it came one round too late. I still gave Ishmael the 30 gold for his efforts.

That’s it for now, but I still have my standard postgame essay to write, which you should see in the next couple of days. Until then, this plus the discussion we already have going should be enough to feast on.

[TinCow]

This was a two-night action. I sent it on D5, meaning that Ishmael would spend N5 and N6 taking inventory. The game ended on N6. Ideally, the plan was to post the list of treasure, see how far out in front the Captain was, and get the greedy players to push for a mutiny. Alas, it came one round too late. I still gave Ishmael the 30 gold for his efforts.

This was a superb idea and it's a shame the game ended before the results showed up. It definitely would have provoked a lot of talk and finger pointing.

[Ishmael]

This was a superb idea and it's a shame the game ended before the results showed up. It definitely would have provoked a lot of talk and finger pointing.

Agreed, I was chuckling to myself at the possibility of a mutiny afterwards. Unfortunately we ran out of time beforehand.

Also; thanks for the game GH! It was good fun, and I really enjoyed the pirate 'flavour,' as my rampant theft no doubt attested.

(By the way, I'm surprised you never had me killed TinCow - I didn't ever get around to removing you from my will)

[Choxorn]

Alas, Arjos died very early on and all of it was for naught. This is easily my biggest disappointment of the game.

My apologies.

[El Barto]

No need to say sorry, Chox.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ha! I knew it!

I wouldn't ever dare you to kill me in a game where everyone is a vigilante if I was a starting Spanish guy. It can't do anything but increase the odds you'd do it, and how would my team feel?

You must remember that Pizza plays to win, so if it doesn't end up with a win, it's not mafia.

But whatever. If you guess wrong in one game you guess right in another. I had fun sparring with ye.

You're well known for being duplicitous even when you're a townie, so you're not exactly at the top of my ally list.

You were correct to sniff me out as not having pure motives for you this time.

That said, take a risk. Someday, you'll enjoy it.

When in doubt, silence/roleblock/kill/protect/busdrive Askthepizzaguy.
When in doubt, suspect Askthepizzaguy.
When in doubt, question Askthepizzaguy.
When in doubt, evade Askthepizzaguy.
When in doubt, avoid Askthepizzaguy.
When in doubt, lynch Askthepizzaguy.

You didn't do any of those things and you won. Kind of obliterates your point.

I maintain that all these rules involving pizzaguy come from people who spend too much time focusing on pizzaguy and not enough time focusing on the rest of the game.

None of those things you cited helped you win, but I certainly helped you win.

I still maintain that my best move of the game was killing Pizza, even though he was a townie. It got the "don't you effing dare mutiny or mess with me" vibe across pretty clearly.

It might have been your most entertaining move, but it didn't advance your win condition a whit. You could have just said no, screw off Pizza, and accomplished the same, or ordered me off the ship with the same results. Face it, you wanted to get some additional screwjob points on your mafia resume. Heck- That's the entire premise to my play this game. Just be honest about it. The idea that it advanced a town win or even a personal Zack win are both inaccurate.

I was a lying backstabbing greedy... townie.

El Barto, the last Musketeer, pondered to himself. He had most definitely enjoyed himself earlier in the night, but now was the time for some reflection on his part. His original group, consisting of himself, Diana Abnoba, and Askthepizzaguy, had made a vow to be absolutely merciless in the pursuit of gold. In the end, it had gotten ATPG killed and Diana most likely targeted for conversion to the Spanish, but it had certainly worked out for him. His count of 226 treasure was second-most on the entire ship, behind only Captain Zaccino's.

THREE CHEERS FOR THE THREE MUSKETEERS, ES



Now then. I would love to get into the game setup, but it will have to wait a bit as I have to run....

[edse]

70 gold from working and activity
24 from a will
19 from stealing

I was about to ask for a mutiny the final day but was to afraid they would lynch me for it. I guessed we would get about 20-30 gold for a successful mutiny.

Never forget, edse!

None of the persons we protected were attacked so it was a bit of a fail.

Montmorency
TinCow
(none)
Kaiser Friedrich II
Visorslash

This resulted in neither me nor Lyra having an alibi other than that we could confirm each others orders. I bet my first reveal to Zack was very Spanish

[Askthepizzaguy]

Thanks to one and all for a great game! I'd now officially like to open this up towards a postgame discussion. I'll be revealing the roles and their mechanics a little later, as well as a general essay about the game, but for now:

What worked well? What didn't? What needs some improvement?

Let me hear what you have to say so that, if and when Pirate Ship Mafia III ever happens, how can it be even better?

First of all, you gotta do it again, and it needs to be soon.

This was over too quick for most of us, and not through any fault of the game host. Not really anyone at fault. Town kicked maybe too much butt this time. That's not a bad way to end a game, most games end with a scum win or town eking out a slim win. A town curb stomp rarely happens except in minis and smalls.

This means we have not quite yet sated our thirst for grog and pirate talk, matey. Pirate Ship III needs to come, and it needs to come in a big way.



_________________________



IMO on game balance:

Game was perfectly balanced the way it was set up. Bottom line, and I'm going to be very strict on this point. I'm not necessarily a fan of allowing Visor to win without meeting his starting win conditions.

Spanish got creamed largely due to decisions they made and missing orders, from what I saw.

In my mind, if I was one of the starting Spanish, the very first thing we do is establish townie cred. Town completely gave everyone a pass who had an alibi. So make one.

All three of the starting peeps needed to be vig-killing or stealing gold. Spanish don't steal gold. Spanish are investigating or recruiting, not vig-killing necessarily. And if all of them are doing it, they're getting their kills in. They're just doing it with the town against the town.

Forgo investigations for a while. Don't even bother with them. Make sure the guy who does the investigating can say "I was here, here, and here on nights X, Y, and Z."

Guess what happens then? Uber townie leader Captain shoot-you-in-the-face Zackbeard doesn't target them at all, and nothing but townies die every single night.

It's not hard.

Simply blending in is part of your job as mafia.

If at any point in the game you need to come up with excuses for what you were doing that night, you're a suspect, and there's several vigilante groups out there. You're toast.

You need to be able to say to Zack, I had X amount of gold I stole from Y. Ask him how much he lost. That's where I was that night.

Townies in this game consciously came up with alibis. That means townies played a sound game.



It's no different when you're mafia. There's nothing town could do in this game that Spanish couldn't do. Had the same powers. The primary job is to blend in.

You can't tell anyone where you were N1, N2, N3, you're done. And since this game setup means starting three of you die, you lose, you can't ever let that happen except by freak chance. Oh well, we got busted N3 on a random vig kill. They still won't know about it until D6. And that's one.

If need be, you can have the special officer do nothing but investigate until he gets caught. The other two Spanish needed to have alibis.

You can lose your detective. Just get a whole string of scans completed. 6 of them. If those folks die off or get lynched, then be glad you didn't waste your time recruiting them. Later, you can recruit the ones you scanned and are still alive. It's like.... instead of trying to hit the bulls-eye, you shoot, and paint the bulls-eye around the mark where you shot. You can't miss that way.

If you know 6 folks are susceptible by N5, anyone can convert them. You don't need three starters. You can be down to your starter and one convert and still double the size of your team one night, and make it to 6 members the next night.

How about blind conversion?

Recruit 2 people early. Then, have your converts blindly recruit until they die. Every night, without fail. You lose a convert, you lost nothing. You know who lost someone? Town did, and they needed to kill that person and when they needed to kill that person, they weren't killing you.

You also don't miss orders, for any reason. RL happens, but it shouldn't be by choice. Obviously someone made a bad choice one night and died the very next day.


_______________________________




It's not really my place to second guess the scumteam decision process, you play the game your best and you have fun. My overall point is, this game was in no way broken. Not even a little bit, not even when Zack was the uberlord and conqueror and master and commander, untouchable.

It never had to be that way. If the starting Spanish had done anything to come up with alibis, they wouldn't have been gunned down. And when Monsieur Zackbeard hits nothing but air for 4 straight rounds, he's gone, because people get impatient and some of them want gold. Not enough, apparently, but still. When 4 people get converted back to back, all of a sudden Zack doesn't look so hot anymore.

I've seen broken games. I've played them. I played in a mini game where the entire town was roleblockers. Without exception. And I was a serial killer.

I lost that game not because it was broken. It was completely broken. I still came up with the BS that got me through, and it wasn't until one townie decided to say screw you pizza that town won.

I had a lot of fun that game. But it was beyond broken.

This was in no way a broken game. If town guesses correctly and all three starting Spanish die, that's nobody's fault and it doesn't mean the game was broken.

There was no lame "You can't lynch me" roles in this game. There was no unstoppable protection ring that cannot be defeated because this game had involuntary recruitment, and the Spanish could perfectly blend in with protections.

All Spanish had to do was leave a trail of breadcrumbs. I was here N1. I was here N2.

That's it. It wasn't done, and town killed anyone who couldn't verify their address. And that got all of them.


That's the bottom line. And Visorslash's role, yeah, it's a tough role. It's serial-killer-esque and he had an ally to boot. Not to mention, he could bribe the out of people and there will always be players (like me) who you can bribe because that's just how they are.

There's always gonna be players like BSmith who, if you bribe them, you've wasted your money. Visor guessed wrong choosing BSmith as an ally. He guessed right with me, because as I told GH, if BSmith was on board with killing Zack, even after everything was revealed to Zack himself, nuts to the consequences, I would have killed Zack to help out such an awesome role, like the game was designed.

I don't care if I died that night, and I did anyway. It would have been glorious and fun, and I would have gotten a lot of money. I might have skipped off the ship that next day, but it would have been fun.


Visorslash's role was perfectly fine as-is.

This game needs no improvement. As a guy who has hosted maybe even more games than the venerable GH, on lots of different forums, take this to the bank. The game setup was beyond solid.

If you want to tweak it and make gold = a way of converting, that would be icing on the next cake. I do like that idea a whole lot.

But don't break the game by diverting away from this setup too much.

I bet you if we replayed this game, right now, totally different outcome. And we'd still have fun. Even knowing what the setup was and the same rules.

Solid game.




Feel free to disagree with me. I'm just a player too. I might host and moderate but I'm not always right. But I know this, if I'm starting mafia this game, I have been given the tools I needed. Can't fault GH one bit.

[Askthepizzaguy]

In response to specific points/questions from GH:

I debated on whether or not to make conversions public in the writeups. One or two of you have said not to do it, what do the rest of you guys think?

Useful to the town, can take it or leave it.

If the scum are on their A-game, this might have been vital and necessary for town to know. As it stands it was a trump card we didn't need because we were always in good position.

It's not broken, you assume anyone who isn't the 3 officers can be converted every night. At no point do you give anyone else a pass. So knowing there's recruitment going on doesn't really prove anything.

It leaves a conflict with your alibi if you have to convert that night and can't because vigilantism. So what?

Break from the vig group and convert. Still gotta figure out which one of four or five abandoned their post. It's still not broken.

...As for revealing both who got stolen from and who did the stealing, possibly the only thing I'd tweak this game if I was hosting it would have been to limit it to just the person who got caught. No need to also prove that player X was guarding that night.

Or, if you wished to beef up the Spanish in any way, the smallest tweak: Allow them to do protections and their normal actions (as in this game), but also allow them to guard their gold and do their normal actions.

That should completely silence any grumblings. That's more than you need to do, really. Actually greedy fun-loving players won't want to guard/steal ad infinitum. Winning by brute force is lame and most of us don't want to. So I still feel this is unnecessary but you can put it in to ensure there can be no brute force wins, at all. Not even waste our time on the attempt.

[Zack]

It might have been your most entertaining move, but it didn't advance your win condition a whit. You could have just said no, screw off Pizza, and accomplished the same, or ordered me off the ship with the same results. Face it, you wanted to get some additional screwjob points on your mafia resume. Heck- That's the entire premise to my play this game. Just be honest about it. The idea that it advanced a town win or even a personal Zack win are both inaccurate.

I was a lying backstabbing greedy... townie.

How can you deny it helped a personal Zack win? It ended all (significant/threatening) mutinous conspiring right then and there. Intimidation and reminding everyone who's boss is a big part of mafia.

[TinCow]

Actually greedy fun-loving players won't want to guard/steal ad infinitum. Winning by brute force is lame and most of us don't want to. So I still feel this is unnecessary but you can put it in to ensure there can be no brute force wins, at all. Not even waste our time on the attempt.

Uh... weren't you the one who proposed the guard/steal plan in the first place?

[Zack]

Yes, and Captain "Spreadsheet" Zackbeard refused to coordinate it.

[BSmith]

There's always gonna be players like BSmith who, if you bribe them, you've wasted your money. Visor guessed wrong choosing BSmith as an ally. He guessed right with me, because as I told GH, if BSmith was on board with killing Zack, even after everything was revealed to Zack himself, nuts to the consequences, I would have killed Zack to help out such an awesome role, like the game was designed.

I don't care if I died that night, and I did anyway. It would have been glorious and fun, and I would have gotten a lot of money. I might have skipped off the ship that next day, but it would have been fun.

Integrity for the win!

But seriously, I need to correct the record here. I was truly playing both sides on the killing Zack issue, and would have done it had two things not happened first:

- Zack directly questioning me about my conversation with Visorslash forcing me to divulge what I knew about Visor and his role. Up to this point I had not said word one about my conversations with Visor. If I was going to help remove the captain, I didn’t want him to know jack about it before hand.

- Your PM to me clearly outlining that we were supporting Zack and not allowing Visor to kill him. Had you shown any support of the plan to kill Zack (we had not talked at all about this individually prior to this point) then I would have done it. As it stood, Zack knew what was happening, and you were privately saying you supported Zack. It would be suicide for me to attempt to allow the order to go through.

It was also clear by this point that Zack was indeed townie, and removing him for the lulz was less of an important goal than to find the Spanish and win the game. I didn’t really gain much by the change in captains. I was already a trusted officer so the promise of keeping that job didn’t do much for me. Having an additional town vig that couldn’t be nightkilled was the main benefit of installing Visor into the captaincy.

It would have been cool to assist Visor into the captaincy. I was supportive of it, but ultimately I needed to do what I had to do to survive and win this game. Circumstances led me to choose Zack as my horse, so I bet it all on him. It could have very easily gone the other way.

[Zack]

Could point three be that I clearly stated I was going to kill him that night, and thus a coup to put him in place would have seemed pointless?

[BSmith]

Yeah, that was another consideration.

[El Barto]

You didn't do any of those things and you won. Kind of obliterates your point.

I maintain that all these rules involving pizzaguy come from people who spend too much time focusing on pizzaguy and not enough time focusing on the rest of the game.

None of those things you cited helped you win, but I certainly helped you win.

I trusted neither of you, actually. I went Mulder mode.

I even posted in the QT that either or both of you could be Spanish or their converts, and that every single player was esentially a survivor.

THREE CHEERS FOR THE THREE MUSKETEERS, ES

I'll drink to that. In fact, I be naming me new bank the Musketeers bank, on Abnoba Street.

Could point three be that I clearly stated I was going to kill him that night, and thus a coup to put him in place would have seemed pointless?

You even pulled some protection off that cunning Frenchman, who still got out of the trap.

[Zack]

You even pulled some protection off that cunning Frenchman, who still got out of the trap.

Only because someone forgot to send in orders.

[El Barto]

And the Frenchman eventually became your greatest ally.

[Zack]

And the Frenchman eventually became your greatest ally.