Yes, they changed the name of it as well as some of the details, but things continued much the same for several more centuries in Britain too.
And of course, the progressive changes from slavery to freedom in Europe was caused by the political involvment(in the form of revolts, mostly) of those sasaki proposes should have no say - and those he wants ruling the country fought tooth and nail to prevent people gaining freedom.
Fascism in a nutshell.
We owe our freedoms not to the efforts of the educated and superior, but to the blood shed by the ignorant and downtrodden.
Last edited by HoreTore; 10-25-2012 at 22:14.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
That's really what they teach in norway?
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Yeoman and arrows = slightly before 18th century. I was comparing it to its nearest rivals. Also most revolutions have had a base that was more educated then their forefathers. The French Revolution relied on the printing press. Tunisia on Twitter.
Over the long term a country that has a wider net of equality out performs a country that has less equality.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Maybe you need to read some more English history?
Serfdom was on the way out by the 1340's, after the Plague. At the same time, there was increasingly freedom and literacy among the rural farming classes, and the urban population were essentially free because within the city it was the Guilds and the Burgesses that held power, not the King.
Even before that, English serfdom was not Russian serfdom, for starters they didn't work on feast days and saints days - take a look at a medieval liturgical calendar, the average English serf worked less than a modern wage-slave.
What's this rubbish about wanting to turn England into a "Hellhole"? More Marxist drivle - Marx was wrong, he read back the present into history rather than reading history to understand the present. I find the charactarisation of medieval Europe to be professionally offensive.
It was not that bad, life has never been that bad. It's a fantasy that people like to scare themselves with, as though medieval magnates were always violent, brutal sociopaths. Frankly, I think such historical fictions say more about the characters of the people who believe them than they do about the past or the present in general.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
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Being a peasant in any pre-industrail civilization would have sucked major gonads to our modern sensibilities. Context of the serfs lot in society is FAR more important. Would the lot in life of a serf be worse than that of a freeman farmer or a burgher? Or, until the black death, was the loss of freedom of movement (and others) plus the requirement to work the lords lands for free worth it for the protections and benefits that came with serfdom.
Marx correctly saw a pattern of subservience of the productive classes of society (medieval serfs and freemen, factory workers of his day, modern wage slaves and blue/white collar professionals) to the unproductive money classes (medieval feudal lords, factory owners of his day, modern CEO types). Now Marx being a product of the ugliest times of the industrial revolution could only see the dynamics of this relationship as being one of brutal domination and vulgar exploitation. When really the power dynamics were, and are, always in motion.
And in 500 years some pinko minded rabble rouser will paint CEO's of today as all being brutal sociopaths.
If you havin' skyrim problems I feel bad for you son.. I dodged 99 arrows but my knee took one.
VENI, VIDI, NATES CALCE CONCIDI
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We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
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I do put it into context. I don't compare a serf/tenants life to my modern life, rather I compare it to the lives of those in power back then, ie. the nobility. Which means their lives were crap.
Fortunately for us all, the serfs thought the same as I do and proved to be an unruly bunch which forced the powers that be into making concessions, making my own life a comfortable one.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Which is totally the wrong way to go about it. Compare the lives of working people today with the lives of the CEO types. The workers lives are still crap.
I assume no such thing. Of course the hierarchies weren't static. But once the economic changes had finished we ended up with similar dynamics over time.
If you havin' skyrim problems I feel bad for you son.. I dodged 99 arrows but my knee took one.
VENI, VIDI, NATES CALCE CONCIDI
I came, I saw, I kicked ass
yes but not AS crap as the same comparison to the Serf's and their Elite class (the Nobility).
Our "working class" enjoys far more freedom and our "Elite" have far less (they are mostly not above the law now for example)
that said I am sure horetore would agree that while we have made progress and lives are not as crap we still have a ways to go...
Actually, with the exception of Czarist Russia: nope. It was the citizenry which proved the unruly lot. This is of course a matter of definitions, since by and large the original Serf status no longer existed when that happened...
Anyway you are probably right that the lives of Serfs were by all accounts, crap. PVC is wrong here: it is the crappiness and the difficulty of upward social mobility (especially when the best farmlands were exhausted and plots became very small due to generations of subdivisions via inheritance) which led to the mass exodus from France, Flanders and England to settle in- and cultivate the Netherlands, Germany, Poland, Ireland, Wales... Nobles would recruit in France and Flanders for instance, and provide upfront loans to pay for the serfs to up sticks, grant them the right to settle on some plots of land in their domains, grant them tax waivers for years until the new settlements were projected to be sustainable, grant them freeman status ... All to get them to come and cultivate their land, which they knew would in due time yield massive ROI even if it meant not being able to exercise as much power over your peasants.
Last edited by Tellos Athenaios; 10-28-2012 at 15:21.
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What date are we talking about here?
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
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