Christianity - Religious System, or the True Natural State of Man?

[lars573]

Most of this is common misinformation - the worst part being the idea that he was called Jesus and he was from Nazareth. His name was Yeshua or Yeshu, a variant of "Joshua" which is the name of the prophet who led the people of Israel to the promised land and conquered it for God. Nor was he from "Nazareth" - the place only appears in accounts by that name long after his death, but he was a "Nazarine" a member of a particular Rabbinic tradition.

So was Yeshua the Nazarine Rabbi a real individual?

Almost certainly - the details about his life, his death, and also what he said are all far too sharply observed. The Canonial Gospels are far from reliable sources, and the apocryphal ones less so, but they contain certain circumstantial details which suggest he really existed. For example, the Gospel of John shows quite detaled knowledge of the internal geography of the City of Jerusalem during Christ's lifetime, despite being written after the city was sacked and ilargely rebuilt by the Romans, and at great geographic remove as well.

Another interesting point is that Jesus quotes from apocrypha and little-known texts, this is a man showing his knowledge rather than one pegging himself to the most popular pieces of scripture.

Ten you have the fact that any other explanation is needlessly complex.

Which is more likely? That there was a real man called Yeshua who was executed by the religious authorities for heresy, or that the character was made up and then believed to have existed, or that a Cabal of Rabbis invented a single figure and alternated pretending to be him?

In fact, the last is the least compelling - because it's a stupid plan that won't work! Why have four men pretend to be the Son of God when you can just pick the most charismatic and have him to it full time?

If you don't believe Jesus existed - take a lok at more modern cults and how they got started. Any cult (and Christianity is one, technically speaking, requires a charismatic leader with drive to get it off the ground.

How many successful cults can you think of that were administered by committee?

I only threw out 2 options. I could conceive of many others that are not ridiculous. I'm going to keep using "Jesus of Nazareth" as a descriptor, for no other reason than convenience. You bring up the detailed information in the gospels about the area at the time. But those first/second century writers would have had access to works that have been lost to us in the intervening 2000 years. So John could have simply copied a work about 1st century the little details Jerusalem into his book. Most of our assumptions about the origins of the Christ cult are based on nothing more than taking the gospels at near face value. Which is really wrong-headed. Considering the Torah is full of out and out propaganda, revisionist histories, and fables. Which we know thanks to modern archeology. And the gospels are probably near as bad. The character "Jesus of Nazareth" could have been based on one person. But I doubt it. More than likely he's an aggregate character compiled from the stories of the leaders of several Messiah cults that existed in first century Judea by the gospel writers. The Christians persecuted by Nero may not be the same cult who's beliefs you and I were raised in.


Now you ask why would a Messiah group create a "Jesus of Nazareth" identity and share it? Easy, if Herod was even a quarter of the tyrant histories make him out to be is why. The actual leader of that cult has the idea that keep to confound the authorities is too have them all play the part of their cults leader in different places. I never insinuated that the cult was led by committee at that level. But that the true leader kept himself hidden.

Many atheists are scared of religion, I'm not sure why.

I think you are childish, you demand autonomy and the right to unfettered self-determination according to your own Conscience but a wise and mature person recognises he is ignorant and looks up to those older and wiser than himself.

Well, nobody could be older or iser than God.

Don't mistake fear for anger. That some magical king sky faerie is always watching me for his amusement like a rat in a maze makes me very angry.