Sweden 2012

[HoreTore]

Do you have any actual citations for this or are you just all hat and no cattle?

I think you've conveniently picked a crime that has trended downwards and attached a singular reason to it. All the while ignoring all other variables

I wish I had more math teachers like you

It was actually surprising to see that the Swedish one has gone down - ours hasn't. Here it went up in the 80's, then down in the 90's. Discounting 2011 of course....

The Norwegian Police is, like any other branch of government, very fond of releasing various reports every now and then. The reports on violent crimes states that the police thinks unreported murders are close to non-existant. I tend to believe they know what they're talking about. With a 95% conviction rate for murder, we also know for sure who's doing the killings here, and can split them up any way we like.

Not really, as I debunked it by asking why then 50% of the rapes are made by immigrants :)

That just made me chuckle.

[Kadagar_AV]

It was actually surprising to see that the Swedish one has gone down - ours hasn't. Here it went up in the 80's, then down in the 90's. Discounting 2011 of course....

The Norwegian Police is, like any other branch of government, very fond of releasing various reports every now and then. The reports on violent crimes states that the police thinks unreported murders are close to non-existant. I tend to believe they know what they're talking about. With a 95% conviction rate for murder, we also know for sure who's doing the killings here, and can split them up any way we like.

It's not so surprising... Sweden has done a lot of work to let even the pettiest criminal understand that if you kill someone, ALL HELL SOCIETY CAN BRING WILL BE BROUGHT DOWN ON YOU.

That is, of course, also why I consider murder statistics to be useless. The criminals know their leash, and they know that murder will have them sent to jail and everyone in their vicinity under close surveillance, including severe harassment.

Basically, the leaders of the organized crime do more to prevent murder than anyone else. In their own interest, cause rest assured, if one of their underlings murder someone they WILL go down with them.


EDIT: Why are you chuckling at 50% of rapes being committed by immigrants?

[Paltmull]

Paltmull, So now explain why 50% of the Swedish rapes are committed by immigrants?

We don't talk about Finland, they have a whole other culture and ethnicity.

You can NOT argue that immigrants aren't the major factor in why our rape statistics have sky rocketed, no matter how much you want to blame it on changes in procedure. Again, 50%... Until we have 50% immigrants, it is clearly an over representation.

I suppose that you're referring to the survey made by the Sweden Democrats (our biggest nationalist party) in 2010? That survey has been criticized quite a lot for various reasons. But regardless of the numbers, it is indeed a fact that immigrants are over-represented in the percentage of those charged with rape. That correlation is however weakened quite a lot when checked against other variables such as income, level of education etc., but not entirely. But a 50% correlation is probably way too much when considering other variables.

Source: http://blog.svd.se/faktakollen/2010/...-valdtaktsvag/

What's more important, however, is that 99.8 percent of immigrants in Sweden are not suspected for having commited rape. It's quite an insult towards the overwhelming majority of immigrants, who would never think of raping anyone, to use rape statistics as an argument against immigration as a whole.

[Kadagar_AV]

Paltmull, my figures does not come from SD, they come from Katrin Lainpelto (doktor i processrätt).

What variables are You talking about? 50% of our rapes are committed by immigrants. There are no "factors" there. It doesn't matter if the immigrant is poor or left handed.

If you THEN start to divide it by culture you would find that East-Asians are actually UNDER-represented. So it's not like I blame "all immigrants". I am more than well aware that it's not the German engineers either, who are the main offenders.

[Paltmull]

Paltmull, my figures does not come from SD, they come from Katrin Lainpelto (doktor i processrätt).

What variables are You talking about? 50% of our rapes are committed by immigrants. There are no "factors" there. It doesn't matter if the immigrant is poor or left handed.

If you THEN start to divide it by culture you would find that East-Asians are actually UNDER-represented. So it's not like I blame "all immigrants". I am more than well aware that it's not the German engineers either, who are the main offenders.

Those other variables tell us that this may largely be a class and education issue rather than a foreigners-with-different-cultures issue. Although there are probably cultural reasons in some cases.

Still, a very overwhelming majority of immigrants are not rapists, and that goes for the middle eastern ones that you are reffering to as well.

[Kadagar_AV]

Those other variables tell us that this may largely be a class and education issue rather than a foreigners-with-different-cultures issue. Although there are probably cultural reasons in some cases.

Still, a very overwhelming majority of immigrants are not rapists, and that goes for the middle eastern ones that you are reffering to as well.

Good on you!! You have accepted cultural differences...

And they might not be as small as you are lead to believe.

Yes of course not all immigrants are rapists, but some immigrant groups are several hundred % more likely to commit rape, so if you have a political system letting that immigrant group in without any sort of control, you are bound to have some blonde girls experiencing a clash of cultures they would have been better off without. Agreed?

EDIT: Several tens of thousands of girls actually, going by the statistics (which is scary in a country of 9 million).
EDIT2: Middle Eastern? Really? You think THAT is the problem? Africans are the real ladykillers. North and sub Saharans.
EDIT3: Let us remember that Iranians allegedly builds nukes. Afghans and Somalis build spears. Or have they got their own gun powder production on yet?

[Paltmull]

Good on you!! You have accepted cultural differences...

And they might not be as small as you are lead to believe.

Yes they might.

Yes of course not all immigrants are rapists, but some immigrant groups are several hundred % more likely to commit rape, so if you have a political system letting that immigrant group in without any sort of control, you are bound to have some blonde girls experiencing a clash of cultures they would have been better off without. Agreed?

No.

[HoreTore]

EDIT: Why are you chuckling at 50% of rapes being committed by immigrants?

Because with Norvegian numbers(Sweden is mostly the same, adjusted for pop size), 50% equals 40 people. 80 people are convicted of rape, so that stat comes from those 80 people. When the estimated number of annual rapes are between 8000 to 16000, you don't have a single ststistical leg to stand on. Generalising findings based on a non-random 80/16000 gives you an F in statistics.

[HoreTore]

Not replying to anyone in particular now, just thought I'dd add to my previous argument on reliable stats(this is in a Norwegian context, mind):

Murder is IMO by far the best one. However, it's not alone at the top. Two hypothetical stats and two real stats are also good. In no particular order:

1. Robbery of a place of business during opening hours. Hypotethical stat, this one files under the larger stat "robberies" and "armed robbery", which also includes much else. If we had that number, however, it would be useful. It's hard and uncommon to fake a robbery in broad daylight or make up such a story, and if you do get robbed, you're definitely going to report it. Insurance,health and safety regulations, etc all make it unheard of not to report such a robbery. There's a catch here though: stores continually implement measures designed to reduce the likelyhood of a robbery(like closed cash systems), a reduction or increase could be a result of such measures. The robbery stat is likely to Correlate closely with the number of actual robberies taking place.

2. Robberies of large businesses outside opening hours. Hypothetical, since the actual stat doesn't distinguish between different kinds of businesses. Insurance fraud is an issue here, and that's most commonly found in smaller businesses than large ones, and for franchises. If you could isolate the "honest businesses", you would get a reliable stat. Smaller robberies might also go unnoticed.

3. The "svinn"-stat(don't know how to translate, it's the amount of goods in a store unaccounted for/thrown away) of businesses. Real stat, but not disclosed to the public. Unaccounted goods result from a variety of factors, like too high orders, mishaps, lower than expected sales, promotion of a particular good, and so on. These factors have nothing to do with crime. But it's also affected by theft, from both employees and "customers". All larger stores have routines developed enough to distinguish the different factors and are able to isolate what is due to theft. An increase in theft can indicate an increase in general crime.

4. Assault on police officers. Real stat. If a police officer is assaulted, it will likely be reported. An increase in attacks likely indicates a harsher enviroment, which in turn indicates an increase in general crime. It's reliability for this is dependent on police methods and classification, however.