Is it OK to forswear family and friends for political beliefs?

[Vuk]

Damn... There were this brilliant comedy clip with a German (read: Nazi) being unable to cope with the bus being late in England... But now I can't find it :(

A Harry Enfield sketch I believe.

[Kadagar_AV]

A Harry Enfield sketch I believe.

Bingo!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Wow, you really present yourself as someone unable to absorb the simplest fact. Single versus double quotes. You're using the European version, commie.

Why do you hate American grammar and punctuation?

Sorry Lemur - that's a myth.

The only rule with quote is that you have to use one type inside the other, so either double inside single or vice versa.

OP:

This isn't simply a "political" question though, is it?

This is a moral question - we forswear family when we find their actions or beliefs repulsive. NAZI's are just an example of repulsive political beliefs but we'd equally forswear a child molester, rapist, or anti-semite.

[Centurion1]

Haven't been in a while but I just wanted to chime in. I hate talking about politics, especially because so many people are even more stupid than I find a way too be. But mostly because I find it to be an exercise in futility especially with individuals my age. My father on the other hand hates talking with his family because they are all liberal New Englanders and very arrogant and rude about it. Despite being the one who made the most out of himself they act like he is a buffoon and it annoys me let alone him. Every time we see them or he talks to them he is inexorably pulled into a political discussion which will result in rather heated Irish discourse. It has sadly gotten to the point where he hasn't been back to see his family since his mother died. Even his aunties and uncles (great aunts and uncles) who absolutely adore him since he was the first born of the family. Its especially sad because it is mostly his brothers and sisters.

So despite being the resident loudmouth hot head you all know me as I absolutely loathe talking about politics with liberal friends mostly because I have seen how disastrous it can be and I dislike pointless confrontation.

[Fragony]

especially because so many people are even more stupid than I find a way too be.

doing fine heh

[Goofball]

I wish there was a way to "select all" on a member's posts and "thank" every one of them. I would do that for Vuk. Every one of his posts provides me with a giggle. Keep on Vukin' ma man...

[Centurion1]

doing fine heh

Actually I think I may be right. But I am terrible at grammar so I am not sure.

[Kadagar_AV]

You're not.

He's American, You have to give him some respect for at least trying to master the English language.

[Centurion1]

Alright sorry as I said I am not very good at grammar.

[Kadagar_AV]

It's okay. Grammar is overrated anyway.

Yeah, who wants to articulate their thoughts in written form anyway?

Don't get me wrong, grammar should NEVER EVER be used to dictate someones mental abilities on the internet, unless of course it is their native language.

[Kadagar_AV]

The great thing about English is that it is the ultimate mongrel language. I find that those who speak it the worst are often most in tune with its best qualities. The internet, in particular, was just made for English.

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EDIT: forum rules says you are not allowed to write in other languages than English. So the translation is: "You might be right, You might be wrong"

[Fragony]

Alright sorry as I said I am not very good at grammar.

I am sorry, was being a jerk

[a completely inoffensive name]

I find that those who speak it the worst are often most in tune with its best qualities.

ya mang, USA #1, luv it or leave it. $moke w33d erry day420 thats why i bailed eng class and just chilled at the 7-11. teachar tried to fail, me but i did well enough on my last esse to get my C- #SWAG

[Kival]

Don't get me wrong, grammar should NEVER EVER be used to dictate someones mental abilities on the internet, unless of course it is their native language.

Ah, so having Dyslexia should be used to dictate someones mental ability? It isn't even correlated with the IQ.

[Beskar]

Ah, so having Dyslexia should be used to dictate someones mental ability? It isn't even correlated with the IQ.

Not entirely true. The way you are meant to diagnose Dyslexic is via an IQ test. I forgot the actual test used, but they test a range of different areas with an assessor which shows all the strong and weaks points. People with Dyslexia are usually spotted because they do really poorly in the language section, but do very good in the others. Obviously, this shows the person is not "stupid", and thus there must be some actual problem in that idea.

For example, the test I took only measured up to 140 iq, and I scored 138, even though I did significantly worse in the language areas due to my dyslexia. Though just for reference, there is no 'real' reliable test that can score above 140, the ability to test degrades over 130 and over 140 is not seen as clinical valid or reliable (so my 168 Mensa test score isn't really valid)

Only big issue with this testing system is that in a way, it assumes "dumb people cannot have dyslexia" because there is no way to actually 'see it' statistically.

[Kadagar_AV]

Ah, so having Dyslexia should be used to dictate someones mental ability? It isn't even correlated with the IQ.

Of course not.

I'm not sure dyslexia, or rather SLI (specific language impairment), is the most likely culprit in this case though.

[Kival]

Not entirely true. The way you are meant to diagnose Dyslexic is via an IQ test. (...)
Only big issue with the testing system is that in a way, it assumes "dumb people cannot have dyslexia" because there is no way to actually 'see it' statistically.

I see. You may clearly know more about the issue, I only read this publication:

http://pss.sagepub.com/content/21/1/93

Out of the abstract:

We show that in typical readers, reading and IQ development are dynamically linked over time. Such mutual interrelationships are not perceptible in dyslexic readers, which suggests that reading and cognition develop more independently in these individuals. To our knowledge, these findings provide the first empirical demonstration of a coupling between cognition and reading in typical readers and a developmental uncoupling between cognition and reading in dyslexic readers.

I did not mean - but was unclear about that - that dyslexia doesn't effect the IQ-Test at all.

[Beskar]

I did not mean - but was unclear about that - that dyslexia doesn't effect the IQ-Test at all.

Possibly true, depending on the test! Though the way they actually come to the diagnosis is via an IQ test. But then again, I did score really highly with dyslexia, if my 'weak areas' which were affected by my dyslexia were on par with my other areas, I would have scored significantly higher. The difference was between getting 19-20 out of 20 for different area, and scoring 10-11 in areas which indicate dyslexia. Was very insightful when reading through my assessment.

[Kadagar_AV]

I see. You may clearly know more about the issue, I only read this publication:

http://pss.sagepub.com/content/21/1/93

Out of the abstract:



I did not mean - but was unclear about that - that dyslexia doesn't effect the IQ-Test at all.

You can design an IQ test that let dyslexic people be on the same level as others. Just do the instructions orally and skip all text in questions and answers.


Also, let's remember that dyslexia doesn't directly hurt grammar. I have had some students with dyslexia, and one of them actually got an A in Swedish. She got audiobooks instead of books, I also completely separated her spelling learning from writing.

She was just AMAZING at making stories, not writing stories of course, but making them. When she made stories, I had her plan it with pictures instead of words, and then she got help with the actual writing.

One example, the class got an assignment to make a remake of a story we had just read. I spent some time about talking about "sucking the reader right in", and the importance of how you open a book and a chapter.

She handed in her paper, and first line went "I don't mean to scare You now, but I am dead." Yepp, she sucked the reader straight in at once alright. She was only 11!!

And that wasn't like "the" example of her brilliance, these things came on a regular basis.

[Kival]

I see. Despite the paper and some internet-knowledge, I only know the typical "dyslexia"-genius: (Very) Good in math and abstract thinking, terrible ortography and also grammar, very bad in learning foreign languages. She even writes books (so far without success) with interesting stories but I have the impression that the dylexia also leads to less sophisticated "formal" aspects of writing. Not only mistakes in orthograph and grammar (which are easily corrected) but also lacking a feeling how to write the story well. Story arch, tension etc. are good but the literary instruments (1) are lacking.

Of course this doesn't have to be related to the dyslexia. I'll not claim one (or rather few examples) to be conclusive.

(1) Not sure, if this is a good translation für "literarisches Handwerkzeug", but didn't know how to translate it otherwise.

[Kadagar_AV]

I see. Despite the paper and some internet-knowledge, I only know the typical "dyslexia"-genius: (Very) Good in math and abstract thinking, terrible ortography and also grammar, very bad in learning foreign languages. She even writes books (so far without success) with interesting stories but I have the impression that the dylexia also leads to less sophisticated "formal" aspects of writing. Not only mistakes in orthograph and grammar (which are easily corrected) but also lacking a feeling how to write the story well. Story arch, tension etc. are good but the literary instruments (1) are lacking.

Of course this doesn't have to be related to the dyslexia. I'll not claim one (or rather few examples) to be conclusive.

(1) Not sure, if this is a good translation für "literarisches Handwerkzeug", but didn't know how to translate it otherwise.

Translation looks about right to me, but I'm sure both your English and German is better than mine anyway, honestly, I wing it a LOT.

Well, dyslexia often does lead to less sophisticated formal aspects of writing, because many parents and schools are ill equipped to give the dyslexic kids ways to work around their issues.

That's what I meant with it not directly being a factor. Indirectly and in practise it's of course a factor, but my point is that a dyslexic kid with dedicated parents and a teacher who cares to read up on stuff have no reason to do worse than others.

[Kival]

That's what I meant with it not directly being a factor. Indirectly and in practise it's of course a factor, but my point is that a dyslexic kid with dedicated parents and a teacher who cares to read up on stuff have no reason to do worse than others.

That must be a very swedish thought. In german teachers don't really react to individual problems. At best they sent child and parent to a psychologist. It is or was very difficult in Germany, too, as our teacher-student relation was quite bad (around 30:1). I've heard it has become better, though.

[Kadagar_AV]

That must be a very Swedish thought. In german teachers don't really react to individual problems. At best they sent child and parent to a psychologist. It is or was very difficult in Germany, too, as our teacher-student relation was quite bad (around 30:1). I've heard it has become better, though.

It is much better now, EASPD has done wonders in Germany. You still have a way to go though, but given how far you have come in just 70 years...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Translation looks about right to me, but I'm sure both your English and German is better than mine anyway, honestly, I wing it a LOT.

Well, dyslexia often does lead to less sophisticated formal aspects of writing, because many parents and schools are ill equipped to give the dyslexic kids ways to work around their issues.

That's what I meant with it not directly being a factor. Indirectly and in practice it's of course a factor, but my point is that a dyslexic kid with dedicated parents and a teacher who cares to read up on stuff have no reason to do worse than others.

I can't speak to formal writing style in Swdesh or German, but as an Anglophone Dyslexic I can tel you that there is a difference between the way Dyslexics write, stylistically, compared to non Dyslexics. We tend to punctuate for rhythm rather than meaning, and we produce constructions which mirror our vocal patterns, rather than written grammar.

Put another way, Dyslexics don't learn to write so much as they learn to transcribe speech.

Dyslexics tend to make good playwrites, poets, actors, and to lesser extend novelists for this reason.

The bad at leaning foreign languages is a new one on me, and makes little sense, unless you mean writing​ or reading a foreign language, which is separate from learning one.

[HoreTore]

I can't speak to formal writing style in Swdesh or German, but as an Anglophone Dyslexic I can tel you that there is a difference between the way Dyslexics write, stylistically, compared to non Dyslexics. We tend to punctuate for rhythm rather than meaning, and we produce constructions which mirror our vocal patterns, rather than written grammar.

Put another way, Dyslexics don't learn to write so much as they learn to transcribe speech.

Dyslexics tend to make good playwrites, poets, actors, and to lesser extend novelists for this reason.

The bad at leaning foreign languages is a new one on me, and makes little sense, unless you mean writing​ or reading a foreign language, which is separate from learning one.

Yhere's also a huge variety of dyslexia. For example, some throw the letters around a bit when writing, some when reading, some constantly miss a part of the word(typically the ending), some forget entire words in a sentence while writing all the others words correctly(like my "my house blue" instead of "my house is blue"), etc etc.

As for "diagnosing" dyslexia:

Dyslexia is indeed only applicable to those who perform average or above in other subjects. The same goes for dyscalculi, the math equivalent. That doesn't mean we don't have a way to "determine dyslexia" in below-average students, however. The short version:

If you're crap at reading, but do well on other stuff, you have dyslexia.
If you're crap at reading and a bunch of other stuff, we have a different term for your situation.

There really isn't more to it than that. Dyslexia and dyscalculi is defined as "poor at reading/math, but good at everything else". If that description doesn't fit you, you don't have dyslexia/dyscalculi.

[Beskar]

For details, as I reacquired my report.

It was the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale - Third UK Edition (WAIS-III UK) that was used for diagnosis in my case. (Fourth edition is out now)

Here is Wikipedia link.
and a random google obtained article .

Just so people have an understanding of what I meant by IQ test and not simply thinking I was meaning something like this.

[HoreTore]

Indeed.

Having dyslexia means you're too dumb to read and/or write.



The social acceptance associated with dyslexia is something I find puzzling.

[Montmorency]

Do you mean to trip up those who haven't read your previous posts?

[HoreTore]

Do you mean to trip up those who haven't read your previous posts?

Who, me?

I stand by every word in both of my posts.

Edit: Ima gunna start a new thread for this topic, so Kadagar can use this thread to stay friendless

[Montmorency]

I'm sorry, but I just can't square it with all the posts I've read by you.