Was Hitler a christian? and atheist morallity

[HoreTore]

People outside Christianity can't be allowed to define who or what we are - that allows you to lump us in with anti-Semites, White Supremacists...

Whatever.

That's like me defining who is and isn't a socialist - ultimately it's for the socialist political movement to decide.

i'd say both ways of defining are important, but they serve different purposes. Since you mentioned socialism(ding ding ding!)......

There are certain things I consider key aspects of socialism. Those who do not conform to those aspects, are not people I consider socialists at all, regardless of their stance on other issues. Gay rights and internationalism, for example. A person who opposes gay rights or who promote nationalism have nothing to do with socialism - the way I see socialism.

Violá - I've just removed the stench of Stalin from my socialist coat.

That, however, makes very little sense to an outsider - as far as the world is concerned, Stalin is a socialist, no matter how much of a chauvinist I (and Lenin) consider him. Even though have less in common with Stalin than I have with the leader of the conservative party, his name will forever be a part of the socialist movement I'm a part of.

I'd say the same goes for you. Even though it makes little sense to call people you have absolutely nothing in common with christian, to an outsider, the KKK is still christian.


Hitler wasn't one though. Nor was he gay, or any of the other thousands of labels people have put on him in their effort to distance him from themselves and lump him with the groups we don't like.

He was a vegitarian, though. Crazy buddhists.

[Kralizec]

(christian antisemitism)An oxymoron if there ever was one.

From a strictly dogmatic perspective maybe. And only a modern one- AFAIK the position of the catholic church was, for a long time, that the jews as a religious (as opposed to ethnic) community were responsible for Jesus' crucifiction. I'm sure you can call upon various arguments as to why that position was ridiculous. Doesn't change the bare fact that christian anti-semitism did exist.

The correct answer would be: Only God knows who is Christian and who is not.

Again: from a dogmatic standpoint. In broad everyday use the word christian refers to someone who considers himself a member of a christian church. I couldn't care less about how much these self-described christians observe the tenets of their faith.

This whole business of defining the term "christian" as the "true scotsman" annoys me. The latest thread about Hitler and atheist morality should give you an idea why. Generally the people who say "a real christian would not do that, it's in the definition of the word" show no reluctance whatsoever to claim that there are 2 billion christians on the planet.

Allthough I must admit I find it remarkable whenever someone calls himself a christian but who choses to cherry-pick the parts of the bible and established dogma which he believes/adheres to, not because of theological thinking but based on convenience or how it fits in with the rest of their worldview. Personally I tend to view the matter as black or white; either the essentials of christian dogma are correct or they're entirely nonsense. If God really exists, why would he allow nonsense about his Word to become so widespread, and why would so many honestly believing adherents fall for this nonsense for centuries?

Believing in only a part of it, for pragmatic reasons, always seemed like a form of hypocricy to me, albeit a harmless one.

[Montmorency]

That, however, makes very little sense to an outsider - as far as the world is concerned, Stalin is a socialist, no matter how much of a chauvinist I (and Lenin) consider him. Even though have less in common with Stalin than I have with the leader of the conservative party, his name will forever be a part of the socialist movement I'm a part of.

This whole business of defining the term "christian" as the "true scotsman" annoys me. The latest thread about Hitler and atheist morality should give you an idea why. Generally the people who say "a real christian would not do that, it's in the definition of the word" show no reluctance whatsoever to claim that there are 2 billion christians on the planet.

It isn't a philosophical quest to find 'the one true X', but a matter of shifting perspectives. Who defines this as what, and why? As for "2 billion Christians n the planet" - of course there are. As I mentioned, governments take census on terms of self-identification, and pretty much that alone. This is the administrative perspective.

Think of the fervent anti-Obamites in the USA, who hold Obama to be a socialist. What makes them 'wrong'? Nothing really, until you consider the label they confer in light of other, more internationally common definitions of socialism, historically common definitions of socialism, and historical individuals and regimes thought to be socialist. But that's just the start of the process - do you at least see the premise?

[Sigurd]

So reality is and was an an oxymoron? Was Luther e.g. not a Christian or how do you want to claim, that there was no Christian antisemitism whatsoever?

I do not claim that there are no Christian anti-semitism. I am just pointing out the oxymoronic notion, that people who do believe in the canon of scripture can have any anti-semitic sentiments. If they believe the Bible - then they should believe that Israel including the tribe of Judah (Jews) are God's chosen people. Why would they be anti-God's people? Jesus Christ himself was a Jew, hence the oxymoron. To be "Christian" and have a general anti-Jew attidude doesn't compute. The Gospel of Christ was only taught to the Jews at first. Peter changed that, not Christ whilst alive.

[total relism]

I do not claim that there are no Christian anti-semitism. I am just pointing out the oxymoronic notion, that people who do believe in the canon of scripture can have any anti-semitic sentiments. If they believe the Bible - then they should believe that Israel including the tribe of Judah (Jews) are God's chosen people. Why would they be anti-God's people? Jesus Christ himself was a Jew, hence the oxymoron. To be "Christian" and have a general anti-Jew attidude doesn't compute. The Gospel of Christ was only taught to the Jews at first. Peter changed that, not Christ whilst alive.

Agreed, christian's really should be called Messianic Judaism, jews that believe Jesus is the messiah. Or gentiles that became messianic Jews.

[Hax]

I do not claim that there are no Christian anti-semitism. I am just pointing out the oxymoronic notion, that people who do believe in the canon of scripture can have any anti-semitic sentiments. If they believe the Bible - then they should believe that Israel including the tribe of Judah (Jews) are God's chosen people. Why would they be anti-God's people? Jesus Christ himself was a Jew, hence the oxymoron. To be "Christian" and have a general anti-Jew attidude doesn't compute. The Gospel of Christ was only taught to the Jews at first. Peter changed that, not Christ whilst alive.

Same goes for Islamic anti-semitism.

Yes, it's the exact same thing.

[HoreTore]

Same goes for Islamic anti-semitism.

Yes, it's the exact same thing.

Yes, as the Jew has infiltrated and talen control of the entire world, the resistance to their satanic perversion is pretty much the same all over the world.











Since we have a new member here, I feel the need to clarify: this was a joke. although with a core of truth, since the jewish conspiracy myth has spread to pretty much the entire world, and it's largely the same everywhere.

[Sigurd]

[Beskar]

Oatmeal has one related to this thread.

[Sir Moody]

you know its a good satire when you can only just tell its satire

[Odin]

People outside Christianity can't be allowed to define who or what we are - that allows you to lump us in with anti-Semites, White Supremacists...

The problem is the rich history of murder, rape torture and complicity in criminal acts that extend now thousands of years. Its very easy to make a difinitive statement "Christians who support the church, a church which has commited several crimes are they themselves criminal" Its right up there with the driver of the get away car getting a jail sentence along with the bank robber. Sorry but being outside of christianity is a wonderful place to assess its cultural impact over its span and its wrought with ugly episodes of violence.

So yeah i think we can define what christians are, filthy stinking criminals who belong in the klink. The paddy wagon should be parked outside of churches all over the world this sunday waiting for you clowns to exit to cuff and stuff you for supporting the criminal enterprise. Pray for me and I'll pray for you. When we get to hell Ill be the one holding the suggestion box.

[rvg]

So yeah i think we can define what christians are, filthy stinking criminals who belong in the klink. The paddy wagon should be parked outside of churches all over the world this sunday waiting for you clowns to exit to cuff and stuff you for supporting the criminal enterprise.

Your so called "definition" begs the question. You have offered nothing to support it.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The problem is the rich history of murder, rape torture and complicity in criminal acts that extend now thousands of years. Its very easy to make a difinitive statement "Christians who support the church, a church which has commited several crimes are they themselves criminal" Its right up there with the driver of the get away car getting a jail sentence along with the bank robber. Sorry but being outside of christianity is a wonderful place to assess its cultural impact over its span and its wrought with ugly episodes of violence.

So yeah i think we can define what christians are, filthy stinking criminals who belong in the klink. The paddy wagon should be parked outside of churches all over the world this sunday waiting for you clowns to exit to cuff and stuff you for supporting the criminal enterprise. Pray for me and I'll pray for you. When we get to hell Ill be the one holding the suggestion box.

People do bad things - Christians are people - QED Christians do bad things.

The key thing to take away from that is that people do bad things, not Christians specifically.

Having said that, right now you're the one peddling ignorant hatred of something you have no understanding of - you might like to take a look at what everyone else was doing for the last two thousand years. Indians were throwing the wives of dead men on funeral piers alive, Muslims were enslaving Christians women and children on an industrial scale, the Vikings were making sacrifices to Odin.

You might benefit from reading the City of God Against the Pagans, specifically Augustine's bit in book one about how Christians treat each other in War and how Pagans treat each other.

[Brenus]

“specifically Augustine's bit in book one about how Christians treat each other in War” You mean, how the English King Henry V treated his French Prisoners after the Agincourt? They were both Christian and same Order (in St Augustin’s definition of the 3 orders). Or do you prefer the Great Peasants' Revolt, Germany, on how the very Christian Monarch and Nobility crushed it?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

“specifically Augustine's bit in book one about how Christians treat each other in War” You mean, how the English King Henry V treated his French Prisoners after the Agincourt? They were both Christian and same Order (in St Augustin’s definition of the 3 orders). Or do you prefer the Great Peasants' Revolt, Germany, on how the very Christian Monarch and Nobility crushed it?

Perhaps you would like to discuss the reaction of Europe's Christians to Henry's actions? Or the fact that he did not simply kill all the prisoners which is what a Julius Caesar would have done.

I already covered the fact that Christians can do bad things, I was responding to Odin's claim that we are worse historically than anyone else, we aren't. Far from it.

[Beskar]

I already covered the fact that Christians can do bad things, I was responding to Odin's claim that we are worse historically than anyone else, we aren't. Far from it.

Cannibalism during the Crusades really did hit a low point though.

[total relism]

The problem is the rich history of murder, rape torture and complicity in criminal acts that extend now thousands of years. Its very easy to make a difinitive statement "Christians who support the church, a church which has commited several crimes are they themselves criminal" Its right up there with the driver of the get away car getting a jail sentence along with the bank robber. Sorry but being outside of christianity is a wonderful place to assess its cultural impact over its span and its wrought with ugly episodes of violence.

So yeah i think we can define what christians are, filthy stinking criminals who belong in the klink. The paddy wagon should be parked outside of churches all over the world this sunday waiting for you clowns to exit to cuff and stuff you for supporting the criminal enterprise. Pray for me and I'll pray for you. When we get to hell Ill be the one holding the suggestion box.

Atheist have done far worse in history than "christians". But both are sinners. But the point is, is when christian do things that are "bad" they do so in-spite of there beliefs, while atheist have no reason not to, and as hitler/darwin said are not being consistent with evolution if they pretend there are moral right and wrongs.


15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?#
matt 7 15-16
Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him.#
19 We love because he first loved us. 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.
1 john 4

[Kadagar_AV]

Atheist have done far worse in history than "christians". But both are sinners. But the point is, is when christian do things that are "bad" they do so in-spite of there beliefs, while atheist have no reason not to, and as hitler/darwin said are not being consistent with evolution if they pretend there are moral right and wrongs.


15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?#
matt 7 15-16
Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him.#
19 We love because he first loved us. 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.
1 john 4

What's christianitys take on stupidity?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Cannibalism during the Crusades really did hit a low point though.

Well, it wasn't policy.

[Brenus]

“Atheist have done far worse in history than "christians". : Prove it. You already failed in a previous attempt.

“But the point is, is when christian do things that are "bad" they do so in-spite of there beliefs”: Because their belief is more accurate description.

“ while atheist have no reason not to, and as hitler/darwin said are not being consistent with evolution if they pretend there are moral right and wrongs.” Hitler was a Christian, so were the rulers of Europe during the slavery trade, the colonisation of all continents, and most of the famines created by their greed.
Why do you insist in claim you can’t back-up with evidences? Er, you have no choice, I know…

[Idaho]

People do bad things - Christians are people - QED Christians do bad things.

I don't think that is logical. If you said:

All people do bad things - Christians are people.

Then you could say that Christians do bad things.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I don't think that is logical. If you said:

All people do bad things - Christians are people.

Then you could say that Christians do bad things.

You are being obtuse, without a qualifier "people" can be taken as "all people".

[Kadagar_AV]

You are being obtuse, without a qualifier "people" can be taken as "all people".

His underlying point remains though.

Or do you want to make a comparative analysis of Buddhist vs Christian crusades?

There are factors held within Christianity that has an ill effect on the world at large. That is why enlightenment and Christianity has so often clashed.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

His underlying point remains though.

Or do you want to make a comparative analysis of Buddhist vs Christian crusades?

There are factors held within Christianity that has an ill effect on the world at large. That is why enlightenment and Christianity has so often clashed.

You don't want to compare Buddhist and Christian religious wars - believe me. You definitely don't want to compare Christian religious wars with, say, Communist Purges.

Christianity is not, at root, a violent or militaristic creed - the fact that it has been used to justify military action is a fact of it's context being entirely human.

I stand by my point.

[Hax]

Or do you want to make a comparative analysis of Buddhist vs Christian crusades?

Well...

[Brenus]

“You definitely don't want to compare Christian religious wars with, say, Communist Purges.” You are right. Christian Religious wars were rougher, merciless and bloodier. Under Communist Purges, you had a chance to escape if you were not opponent, but if you were not praying the same God, or not as you were supposed to do, that was the end, my friend (Apocalypse Now, The Door)…
A quick look at the results of the French one (e.g. St Barthelemy Night, Siege of La Rochelle –Christian VS Christian by the way- the Dragonnades of Louis the XIV and the Abrogation of the Edit de Nantes) will give you clues.

[total relism]

“Atheist have done far worse in history than "christians". : Prove it. You already failed in a previous attempt.

“But the point is, is when christian do things that are "bad" they do so in-spite of there beliefs”: Because their belief is more accurate description.

“ while atheist have no reason not to, and as hitler/darwin said are not being consistent with evolution if they pretend there are moral right and wrongs.” Hitler was a Christian, so were the rulers of Europe during the slavery trade, the colonisation of all continents, and most of the famines created by their greed.
Why do you insist in claim you can’t back-up with evidences? Er, you have no choice, I know…

‘atheist regimes have in a single century murdered more than one hundred million people’ (p. 214). Even adjusting for changes in population size, atheist regimes are responsible for 100 times more death in one century than Christian rulers inflicted over five centuries. However, while it can easily be shown that crimes committed in the name of Christianity are not sanctioned by its teaching, the bloodbaths of the atheist regimes are consistent with an atheist, evolutionary outlook. Indeed, atheists have no moral basis to say that anything is right or wrong


atheist governments killings morality etc
77 million in Communist China, 62 million in the Soviet Gulag State, 21 million non-battle killings by the Nazis, 2 million murdered in the Khmer Rouge killing fields (see also Rummel, R.J., Death by Government, New Brunswick, N.J.: Transaction Publishers, 1994).

Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler#(1889-1945) endorsed a program in Germany to breed a superior race. The scheme was based on a horrific evolutionary theory called “eugenics” that was founded by Charles Darwin's cousin, Francis Galton. The idea of eugenics was to improve the human race using principles promoted in the theory of evolution.
The idea was simple: partition the human race into two groups, the “fit” and the “unfit.” Eugenics seemed to be a way to make sure the “fit” had children and the “unfit” did not. In Germany, the leaders of the eugenics movement got monstrous laws enacted that allowed sterilization of people regarded as “unfit,” and restriction of immigrants who were supposedly “biologically inferior.” (The United States and other countries enacted similar laws, but the Nazis took it to the extreme when Jews, blacks, and others were ruthlessly murdered to prop up the theory.)
The German people were being seduced to accept that they could be the “master race” by exterminating the “unfit.” If evolution was right, they reasoned, and “survival of the fittest” was merely a positive, evolutionary process, then what could be wrong with hastening the deaths of the “unfit”?
Eugenics could only become popular because the theory of evolution seemed to have quashed the need for the sovereign Creator, God, who had given humankind absolute moral laws. When you do away with moral laws, outrageous racism and crimes like compulsory sterilization, Hitler's death camps, and mass murder on a maniacal scale can no longer be said to be evil.



Russian communist leader Leon Trotsky#(1879-1940), left, was a fanatical supporter of Marxism and Darwinism. In the Russian Civil War of 1918-20, he used the force of the Red Army to stamp out whoever he decided was an enemy of the Soviet State.
He confiscated food from peasants, brutalized the Ukrainian army of insurgent peasants, and killed its guerrilla leader, N. I. Makhno.
He inflicted torture and violence against Christians, mercilessly trashed churches, and led the Society of the Godless to get rid of religion.
Trotsky was mesmerized by Charles Darwin's#Origin of Species. He said: “Darwin stood for me like a mightly doorkeeper at the entrance to the temple of the universe.” He said that Darwin's ideas “intoxicated” him. And he could not understand in the slightest how belief in God could find room in the same head as belief in Darwin's ideas.
Like Hitler, Trotsky was a tyrant who saw Darwin's theory of evolution as scientific justification for dismissing God's moral laws. He clearly saw that the two ideas, God and evolution, were totally incompatible. His atrocities were consistent with this belief, for when you do away with the idea of the God who created you and who has given instructions for the right way to live, there is no reason to avoid despicably violent crimes. Even if this means murdering everyone who disagrees with you.




Hitler was not a christian as this thread has pointed out to you many times.


“ He who does not wish to fight in this world, where permanent struggle is the law of life, has not the right to exist”.
Hitler A Mein Kampf, english translation by James Murphy, 1939 Fredonia Classics, New York, p266 2003

“The stronger must dominate and not mate with the weaker, which would signify the sacrafice of its own higher nature. Only the born weakling can look upon this principle as cruel,and if he does so it is mearly because he is of a feebler nature and narrower mind for if such a law did not direct the process of evolution
then the higher development of organic life would not be conceivable at all”.
Hitler A Mein Kampf, english translation by James Murphy, 1939 Fredonia Classics, New York, p262 2003

“if nature does not wish that weaker individuals should mate with the stronger, she wishes even less that a superior race should intermingle with an inferior one. Because in such a case all her efforts, throughout hundreds of thousands of years, to establish an evolutionary higher stage of being may thus be rendered futile.”
Hitler A Mein Kampf, english translation by James Murphy, 1939 Fredonia Classics, New York, p263 2003




All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

13th December, 1941, midnight:

Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday:

Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold it ." (p 278)

From "Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944", published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc. first edition, 1953, The book was published in Britain under the title, "Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944", which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.



Hitler had to convice germany of his beliefs he did so throgh propaganda, the leading opnents of his beliefs was the church in germany so he changed the bible and took over the church to fit his beliefs.

Heschel, S., The Aryan Jesus: Christian Theologians and the Bible in Nazi Germany, Princeton University press, USA, 2008




But what is important is, atheist are not contradicting there beliefs by murdering millions, christian are.

“ He who does not wish to fight in this world, where permanent struggle is the law of life, has not the right to exist”.
Hitler A Mein Kampf, english translation by James Murphy, 1939 Fredonia Classics, New York, p266 2003

[total relism]

As early as 1925, Hitler outlined his conclusion in Chapter 4 of#Mein Kampf#that Darwinism was theonly#basis for a successful Germany and which the title of his most famous work#—#in English#My Struggle#—#alluded to. As Clark concluded, Adolf Hitler:
‘ …was captivated by evolutionary teaching#—#probably since the time he was a boy. Evolutionary ideas#—#quite undisguised#—#lie at the basis of all that is worst in#Mein Kampf#-and in his public speeches …. Hitler reasoned … that a higher race would always conquer a lower.’
Clark, Robert,#Darwin: Before and After,#Grand Rapids International Press, Grand Rapids, MI, 1958


And Hickman adds that it is no coincidence that Hitler:
‘#… was a firm believer and preacher of evolution. Whatever the deeper, profound, complexities of his psychosis, it is certain that [the concept of struggle was important because] … his book,#Mein Kampf, clearly set forth a number of evolutionary ideas, particularly those emphasizing struggle, survival of the fittest and the extermination of the weak to produce a better society.’
Hickman, R.,#Biocreation,#Science Press, Worthington, OH, pp. 51–52, 1983



‘One of the central planks in Nazi theory and doctrine was …evolutionary theory [and] … that all biology had evolved … upward, and that … less evolved types … should be actively eradicated [and] … that natural selection could and should be actively aided, and therefore [the Nazis] instituted political measures to eradicate … Jews, and … blacks, whom they considered as “underdeveloped”.
Wilder-Smith,#B., The Day Nazi Germany Died, Master Books, San Diego, CA, p. 27, 1982


‘ … straightforward German social Darwinism of a type widely known and accepted throughout Germany and which, more importantly, was considered by most Germans, scientists included, to be scientifically true. More recent scholarship on national socialism and Hitler has begun to realize that … [their application of Darwin’s theory] was the specific characteristic of Nazism. National socialist “biopolicy,” … [was] a policy based on a mystical-biological belief in radical inequality, a monistic, antitranscendent moral nihilism based on the eternal struggle for existence and the survival of the fittest as the law of nature, and the consequent use of state power for a public policy of natural selection….
Stein, G., Biological science and the roots of Nazism,#American Scientist#76(1):50–58, 1988


Hitler, as an evolutionist,‘consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution’.

If war be the progeny of evolution#—#and I am convinced that it is#—#then evolution has “gone mad”, reaching such a height of ferocity as must frustrate its proper role in the world of life#—#which is the advancement of her competing “units”, these being tribes, nations, or races of mankind. There is no way of getting rid of war save one, and that is to rid human nature of the sanctions imposed on it by the law of evolution. Can man … render the law of evolution null and void? … I have discovered no way that is at once possible and practicable. “There is no escape from human nature.” Because Germany has drunk the vat of evolution to its last dregs, and in her evolutionary debauch has plunged Europe into a bath of blood, that is no proof that the law of evolution is evil. A law which brought man out of the jungle and made him king of beasts cannot be altogether bad.’#
Keith, A.,#Evolution and Ethics,#G.P. Putnam’s Sons, New York, p. 230, 1946.

‘The Jews, labelled subhumans, became nonbeings. It was both legal and right to exterminate them in the collectivist and evolutionist viewpoint. They were not considered … persons in the sight of the German government.’
Whitehead, J,#The Stealing of America, Crossway Books, Westchester, IL, p. 15, 1983


‘The Germans were the higher race, destined for a glorious evolutionary future. For this reason it was essential that the Jews should be segregated, otherwise mixed marriages would take place. Were this to happen, all nature’s efforts “to establish an evolutionary higher stage of being may thus be rendered futile”#(Mein Kampf).’


talking of chirtianity hitler says
‘ … organized lie [that] must be smashed. The State must remain the absolute master. When I was younger, I thought it was necessary to set about [destroying religion] … with dynamite. I’ve since realized there’s room for a little subtlety …. The final state must be … in St. Peter’s Chair, a senile officiant; facing him a few sinister old women … The young and healthy are on our side#…#it’s impossible to eternally hold humanity in bondage and lies …. [It] was only between the sixth and eighth centuries that Christianity was imposed upon our peoples …. Our peoples had previously succeeded in living all right without this religion. I have six divisions of SS men absolutely indifferent in matters of religion. It doesn’t prevent them from going to their death with serenity in their souls.’
Hitler, A.,#Hitler’s Secret Conversations 1941–1944, With an introductory essay on The Mind of Adolf Hitler by H.R. Trevor-Roper, Farrar, Straus and Young, New York, p. 116, 1953.


Hitler was influenced above all by the theories of the nineteenth-century social Darwinist school, whose conception of man as biological material was bound up with impulses towards a planned society.#
Fest, J.C.,#The Face of the Third Reich,#Pantheon, NY, pp. 99–100, 1970.


“ He who does not wish to fight in this world, where permanent struggle is the law of life, has not the right to exist”.
Hitler A Mein Kampf, english translation by James Murphy, 1939 Fredonia Classics, New York, p266 2003

“The stronger must dominate and not mate with the weaker, which would signify the sacrafice of its own higher nature. Only the born weakling can look upon this principle as cruel,and if he does so it is mearly because he is of a feebler nature and narrower mind for if such a law did not direct the process of evolution
then the higher development of organic life would not be conceivable at all”.
Hitler A Mein Kampf, english translation by James Murphy, 1939 Fredonia Classics, New York, p262 2003

“if nature does not wish that weaker individuals should mate with the stronger, she wishes even less that a superior race should intermingle with an inferior one. Because in such a case all her efforts, throughout hundreds of thousands of years, to establish an evolutionary higher stage of being may thus be rendered futile.”
Hitler A Mein Kampf, english translation by James Murphy, 1939 Fredonia Classics, New York, p263 2003


# Hitler made it clear that he “hated Christianity” and was going to eliminate it when the war ended
#“it had crippled everything noble about humanity” (quoted in Kershaw, 2000, p. 936).
Kershaw, Ian. 2000.#Hitler. 1936-45: Nemesis.#New York: W.W. Norton.

# Hitler was trying to use science — especially Darwinism — to create a utopia on Earth, and he made it absolutely clear that there would be “no place in this utopia for the Christian Churches” in his plans for the future of Germany.# He realized that this was a long term goal and “was prepared to put off long-term ideological goals in favor of short-term advantage”
p. 238 Kershaw, Ian. 2000.#Hitler. 1936-45: Nemesis.#New York: W.W. Norton.

#For example, when Germany invaded Poland, around 200 executions a day occurred — all without trials — which included especially, the “nobility, clerics, and Jews,” all which were eventually to be exterminated (Kershaw, 2000, p. 243)


Hitler considered Christianity the “invention of the Jew Saul” (Azar, 1990, p. 154)
Azar, Larry. 1990.#Twentieth Century in Crisis.#Dubuque, IA: Kendall Hunt.


“murdered by Hitler’s stormtroopers.# In an attempt to discredit the Church, monks were brought to trial on immorality charges.# In 1935 the Protestant churches were placed under state control.# Protesting ministers and priests were sent to concentration camps.# They had become ‘supervisives’ on a par with the Jews and communists.# Pope Pius XI, realizing the anti-Christian nature of Nazism, charged Hitler with ‘the threatening storm clouds of destructive religious wars ... which have no other aim than ... that of extermination.’# But the Nazi shouts of ‘Kill the Jews’ drowned out the warning voice of the Pope and the agonized cries of the tortured in the concentration camps” (Dimont, 1994, p. 397).


“Hitler spoke of both Protestants and Catholics with contempt, convinced that all Christians would betray their God when they were forced to choose between the swastika and the Cross: ‘Do you really believe the masses will be Christian again?# Nonsense!# Never again.# That tale is finished.# No one will listen to it again.# But we can hasten matters.# The parsons will dig their own graves.# They will betray their God to us.# They will betray anything for the sake of their miserable jobs and incomes’” (1995, p. 104).
Lutzer, Erwin W. 1995.#Hitler’s Cross: The Revealing Story of How the Cross of Christ was Used as a Symbol of the Nazi Agenda.#Chicago, IL: Moody Press.


physicist Albert Einstein
“lover of freedom, when the (Nazi) revolution came, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but no, the universities were immediately silenced.# Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers, whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks...Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler’s campaign for suppressing truth.# I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration for it because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual and moral freedom.# I am forced to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly” (cited by Wilhelm Niemoller in#Kampi und Zeugnis der bekennenden Kirche#— Struggle and Testimony of the Confessing Church, p. 526. and Cochrane).


Altogether Hitler’s killing machine murdered 5 million Jews, and 7 million Christians — a little published fact that caused Jewish historian Max Dimont to declare that “the world blinded itself to the murder of Christians” by Nazi Germany (Dimont, 1994, pp. 391-392).# In Poland alone 881 Catholic priests were annihilated (Azar, 1990, p. 154).# In time many more priests would end up in concentration camps.


Dachau concentration camp held the largest number of Catholic priests — over 2,400 — in the Nazi camp system.# They came from about 24 nations, and included parish priests and prelates, monks and friars, teachers and missionaries.# Over one third of the priests in Dachau alone were killed (Lenz, 2004).# One Dachau survivor, Fr. Johannes Lenz, wrote an account of the Catholic holocaust.# He claimed that the Catholic Church was the only steadfast fighter against the Nazis.# Lenz tells the agony and martyrdom of the physical and mental tortures Dachau inmates experienced.# Men and women were murdered by the thousands in Dachau, and those who survived were considered “missionaries in Hell.”# The fact is, official Nazi works taught both anti-Semitic and anti-Christian doctrines:

“If one believes the anti-Semitic, one should also believe the anti-Christian, for both had a single purpose.# Hitler’s aim was to eradicate all religious organizations within the state and to foster a return to paganism” (Dimont, 1994, p. 397).

More documents that prove Nazi’s planned to “eliminate Christianity and convert its followers to an Aryan philosophy” are now on the online version of#Rutgers Journal of Law and Religion#(Hotchkin, 2003, p. 3).# The church did much to fight Nazism, but not nearly enough.# Nonetheless, there is no way that they can they be held as the#cause#of Nazism.



‘ …#modern eugenics thought arose only in the nineteenth century. The emergence of interest in eugenics during that century had multiple roots. The most important was the theory of evolution, for Francis Galton’s ideas on eugenics#—#and it was he who created the term “eugenics”#—#were a direct logical outgrowth of the scientific doctrine elaborated by his cousin, Charles Darwin.’
Ludmerer, K., Eugenics,#In:#Encyclopedia of Bioethics,#Edited by Mark Lappe, The Free Press, New York, p. 457, 1978

‘ … struggle, selection, and survival of the fittest, all notions and observations arrived at … by Darwin … but already in luxuriant bud in the German social philosophy of the nineteenth century. … Thus developed the doctrine of Germany’s inherent right to rule the world on the basis of superior strength … [of a] “hammer and anvil” relationship between the Reich and the weaker nations.’
Keith, A.,#Evolution and Ethics,#G.P. Putnam’s Sons, New York, p. 230, 1946

[Sir Moody]

would people stop saying Hitler was Christian (even if you believe it) - all it does is prompt TR to pull out the stupid copy paste reams he has used so many times in this thread...

stick to Hitler was a "Believer" and not atheist- that way we may survive the copy pasta attacks...

on a serious note

I don't think that is logical. If you said:

All people do bad things - Christians are people.

Then you could say that Christians do bad things.

Better would be:

Some People do Bad things > Christians are People > therefore Some Christians do bad things

[Brenus]

“would people stop saying Hitler was Christian” Well, it is funny how he is a believer in repetition makes truth.

TR, check who was Aloysius Stepinac, new Croatian Saint of the Roman Catholic Church…
Kershaw, is he the “historian” trying to exempt Hitler of the decision of the “Final Solution”? Yes, very reliable, as much as D. Irving (holocaust Denier).

Do you understand (but I am sure you don’t) that in evolution there no superior or inferior races. In Religion(s), where the Christian Hitler picked his idea, yes, not in evolution. If Hitler wasn’t a Catholic Christian, why did he pick the Jews and the Slavs as inferior? Answers: Because the first killed the Christ (according to the Christian Tradition), and the second went in Heresy. See.
And an “evolutionist” knows that there is one actual human race. Perhaps you don’t know as the Bible agrees with slavery, rapes and slaughters of others populations, but there is ONLY one Human Race. Other races are Equine, Porcine, Birds, etc. Just buy a book of biology. I don’t blame the ignorant writers of the Bible for this, as they didn’t have the knowledge to know this, but Darwin had.

Religions call for killing on their names. News for you: There no Atheist equivalent of Bible. I can imagine how stupide it would be for an individual to call to kill for nothing: “Kill the believers in the name of err… Nobody” is not really strong. Now, kill for Christ was quite used: From “Kill them all, God will know his own” Arnaud Amaury, Pope’s Legate, 1209, to the “God with us” on the Nazi Germany soldiers’ belt, that sounds much better and motivating.

The victims’ figures of the Atheist regimes: There is no example of Atheist Regime. There are examples of Theocracies. You might have regime lead by atheists. But if you add all the victims during wars to rulers who were Christians, I think you will find the Religions take the lead in numbers of murders and killing, and the Christians one probably competing for the first place (see conversion of the Saxons by Charlemagne).

Eugenic was based more on Comte Arthur Gobineau essay on the “Inequality of Human Races” or other scientists as Francis Galton (1883).
Nothing in Darwin tells about “inequality” in Races, as it is not the subject of the studies. Linking Darwin and his Cousin and then to Hitler is an intellectual fraud, only good for those who have a lot to be forgiven.

Try again. I mean, copy and paste.