Newtown School Shootings

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Maybe in England, but not here.

You shot him in the back - that's got to be First Degree Murder.

[rvg]

You shot him in the back - that's got to be First Degree Murder.

No, I killed a criminal who tried to rob me, it's justifiable homicide.

[ICantSpellDawg]

If it is a fact that blacks and hispanics commit the disproportionate share of homicides in the U.S., then any comparison of rates nation to nation must take into consideration these factors to be accurate (among others). You know it is reasonable to suggest that the numbers are not a fair measure. These groups also tend to live in areas with the most intense gun control, yet their rates are still that much higher. Not all blacks, not most blacks, but a statistically significant portion of those committing homicide year to year. Peoples perception of the color of their skin most likely was the main reason why they are an at-risk population and this terrible, but it doesn't change the reality. American society has unfairly disenfranchised blacks for years and we are paying a price for it when a population that has serious cultural issue to face. We did an enormous amount to create that problem, but it is still a problem.

Since when did ideas have to nice? By forum standards they must be written with courtesy, but that shouldn't get in the way of facts. What is your response, Idaho and Rory?

[rory_20_uk]

There is a monumental difference between correlation and causation. I would like to see a proper multivariate analysis to see what are the independent risk factors in different countries. I'm betting that loads-a-guns plays a greater determinant on the odds ratio. As has been so oft stated, getting angry with one's fists or a knife makes killing people a lot harder than with a gun.

There is also the fact that there are groups disenfranchised in Europe.

America has free borders between states. Local restrictions would only mean something if there were regular stop and searches with confiscation of weaponry with a large fine.

I'm still not seeing facts. I prefer peer reviewed research.

[Idaho]

I just think that I will never understand you Americans. You seem bonkers to me much of the time.

[Xiahou]

So you are saying that the US has more blacks than the UK, so naturally has more murders? Nice!

I'm not prepared to speculate on the "whys", but the murder rate among our black population and among the UK's black population is many times higher than the white populations in their corresponding countries. In the US, the homicide rate by race of the perpetrator is over 7x higher for blacks than whites (24.7/100,000 vs 3.4/100,000). The US is about 66% white, the UK is about 85% white.

I didn't readily find the comparable rates in the UK, but I do see that Wikipedia says that blacks are only 2.7% of the general population (over 10) in the UK, but 13.7% of the prison population.

NOTE:
Correlation is not causation- and I'm not attempting to make any argument to that effect. The reason I bring these statistics up is to demonstrate that straight up homicide rate comparisons between relatively homogenous European countries and the more heterogeneous US population are not particularly meaningful.

[Lemur]

Can we please dispense with this 'absolutist' moniker? [...] this is nonsense.

Mandated safety measures are not appropriate for what is a constitutional right [...] Gun ownership is a right and should not be subject to government demands before you are allowed to exercise it. Safety training and record keeping would do nothing to prevent these sprees.

I have yet to see any gun control proposal that would actually prevent mass murder and is based on a rational view of the country and not a knee jerk reaction hysteria.

Note CR's self-conflicting mish-mash of reasoning, beginning with how any regulation is impractical, but always coming back to how any regulation is a violation of fundamental rights and an imposition of the Nanny State. (So why bother to argue the practicality in the first place, if we're proceeding from a priori truths?)

From CR's stated perspective, there is no regulation of firearms in the U.S.A. that can ever be legitimate. Or of there is, he's avoiding mentioning it. How is that not "absolutist"? Or at least a very good imitation of absolutism?

The NRA, for that matter, appears to have no "end game" beyond unlimited access to firearms for pretty much everyone. Yes, they make occasional noises about the insane and criminals, but none of their proposed legislation would mitigate against either, and things such as the gun show loophole (which they fight strenuously to maintain) put a hole below the waterline in their credibility.

Anyway, we'll see. The NRA says it's going to hold a presser tomorrow. Let's see if they have anything more interesting to say than "more guns" or "OBUMMER DIKKKTATOR GONNA DERK UHR GEHNS."

[Ronin]

Anyway, we'll see. The NRA says it's going to hold a presser tomorrow. Let's see if they have anything more interesting to say than "more guns" or "OBUMMER DIKKKTATOR GONNA DERK UHR GEHNS."

the first indications show they are gonna try to throw videogames and movies under the train.