This country sucks, and could learn from Norway

[HoreTore]

"Industrialization" refers to manufacturing, not the industrial revolution itself. Ie. 14th century, not 18th.

[gaelic cowboy]

"Industrialization" refers to manufacturing, not the industrial revolution itself. Ie. 14th century, not 18th.

Ah here now yer having a laugh going back to the 1300s man

in the 1300s the key to wealth for an Anglo Norman was having his paws on a big fat duchy like say Aquitaine which apparently was wealthier than all Anglo Norman controlled land in both the UK and Ireland added together.

[HoreTore]

Ah here now yer having a laugh going back to the 1300s man

in the 1300s the key to wealth for an Anglo Norman was having his paws on a big fat duchy like say Aquitaine which apparently was wealthier than all Anglo Norman controlled land in both the UK and Ireland added together.

...and that probably explains why I have mentioned Holland and the Italian city-states, and not Britain?

[Sarmatian]

...and that probably explains why I have mentioned Holland and the Italian city-states, and not Britain?

And you do know that Italy and the Lowlands were the richest part of Europe at that time, partly due to their huge agricultural production, which allowed cheap(er) food. Those rich Italian city states didn't form around Naples or Sicily but in the north, near the fertile Po valley.

[gaelic cowboy]

...and that probably explains why I have mentioned Holland and the Italian city-states, and not Britain?

A geographic sweetspot had a big influence during that period for the two mentioned

[HoreTore]

And you do know that Italy and the Lowlands were the richest part of Europe at that time, partly due to their huge agricultural production, which allowed cheap(er) food. Those rich Italian city states didn't form around Naples or Sicily but in the north, near the fertile Po valley.

A geographic sweetspot had a big influence during that period for the two mentioned

Industrialization began in the netherlands when the agricultural potential was exploited. It began in Italy when the power of the countryside(feudal lords) had been broken and the power moved to the city.

Agriculture is of course a prerequisite for cities. True wealth, however, can only come about as a result of industrialization in the city. This occurs when investments in new land is no longer viable, which is what happened in Holland and Italy.

And both places did have a geographic sweet spot. When did I say otherwise? They both occupied ideal places for industrialization - instead of resource exploitation.

[Kralizec]

Why don't you organize protests. They seem to be working here in Bulgaria (don't know if you've seen the news, I was at the protests last night even though I make good money presently)

I hadn't noticed anything in the news about Bulgaria, but today I read that you're out of a government...

As for why nobody here is protesting, good question.

The gas here has provided the rest of the country with over 170 billion euro's since it was discovered, but the north is sparsely populated (i.e. few voters), so politicians can get away with ignoring it. A couple of years ago the central government decided to cancel a high-speed rail project that would have connected the northern provinces to the bigger cities in the west. The allocated funds would instead to be used for other infrastructural projects in the north as compensation. Except that shortly thereafter it was decided to divert 2/3 of the money to the western cities, under the reasoning that this way it would benefit a larger amount of people. This is pretty typical of how the central government has always treated the peripherial parts of the Netherlands.

Now we're having more and more earthquakes; and a study has projected that the frequency and intensity will increase (possibly exceeding 5 on the richter scale) if gas exploitation continues. The relevant minister has, however, requested 11 more scientific studies of which the results are due only at the end of this year, and said he won't consider scaling back gas exploitation until that time.

The people here are probably less chauvenistic and regionalistic than some other parts of the country, so they don't tend to complain much about it. It doesn't bother me that much myself, actually. I'm pretty sure though that in a country with stronger regional identities, like Spain, the central government wouldn't dream of giving any region a similar treatment.

[Sarmatian]

Industrialization began in the netherlands when the agricultural potential was exploited. It began in Italy when the power of the countryside(feudal lords) had been broken and the power moved to the city.

Agriculture is of course a prerequisite for cities. True wealth, however, can only come about as a result of industrialization in the city. This occurs when investments in new land is no longer viable, which is what happened in Holland and Italy.

And both places did have a geographic sweet spot. When did I say otherwise? They both occupied ideal places for industrialization - instead of resource exploitation.

Of course that wealth comes from industrialization - the point is that prerequisite of industrialization is cheap and plentiful food. If you have 80% of your population working in agriculture, you can't really industrialize, but when it comes to a point when only 50% works in agriculture, the rest are free to do something else, so nations that had more fertile land and more advanced technology had a better starting position.

Add to that a geographic sweetspot as gaelic cowboy nicely put it and you have much more effective industrialization than other, not so blessed countries. If you add abundant natural resources to mix, you get a very powerful combo.

Not to mention other issues like transportation, wars, education, political concerns etc...

[Fragony]

Industrialization began in the netherlands when the agricultural potential was exploited. It began in Italy when the power of the countryside(feudal lords) had been broken and the power moved to the city.

Agriculture is of course a prerequisite for cities. True wealth, however, can only come about as a result of industrialization in the city. This occurs when investments in new land is no longer viable, which is what happened in Holland and Italy.

And both places did have a geographic sweet spot. When did I say otherwise? They both occupied ideal places for industrialization - instead of resource exploitation.

In case of the Netherlands it was more colonisation and trade that brought wealth, our golden age was way before industrialisation, we were pretty badly lagging behind other countries like the UK with that. The Netherlands is also blessed with natural infrastructure, these rivers have always come in handy, it's really easy to move stuff around for us. Small miracle we were never eaten by our neighbours because of that positioning.

//suckup mode, love it when you are being smug

[Strike For The South]

The United States has some of the most natural resources in the world.

[Tellos Athenaios]

In case of the Netherlands it was more colonisation and trade that brought wealth, our golden age was way before industrialisation, we were pretty badly lagging behind other countries like the UK with that.

Colonisation never brought in the big bucks, by and large it did not manage to break even. What worked out really well, though, was the trade with the Baltic.

The Netherlands is also blessed with natural infrastructure, these rivers have always come in handy, it's really easy to move stuff around for us. Small miracle we were never eaten by our neighbours because of that positioning.

//suckup mode, love it when you are being smug

Not a small miracle. Here's how it works:

Hire the entirety of Switzerland. People are afraid of the Swiss, or they will be after the Swiss stick 'em on a pike. If that fails, cosy up to France, England or Prussia; switch alliances as necessary to keep them on tenterhooks. In a pinch you are allowed to bribe the Spanish.