I was accosted by a Jewish hobo today...

[Kadagar_AV]

Depends on setting too... I never heard as much dark comedy as when working in a bar environment...

Q: How do You make a 6 year old cry a second time?
A: You wipe it off on her teddybear.

Q: What is the sound of a baby in a blender?
A: I don't know (either), I was too busy masturbating.

Even phedophilia baby killing jokes CAN be fun in the right setting, among the right people. Specially if You add some stimulants.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Strong overcompensation in this thread.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Isn't the whole point of a joke to trivialise something?

So Jews are allowed to make Holocaust jokes because it's a natural coping mechanism for them, for everyone else it's a way of ignoring what happened or mitigating it.

This is also the prime reason people find jokes offensive - they take exception to the subject being trivialised.

[Hooahguy]

Isn't the whole point of a joke to trivialise something?

So Jews are allowed to make Holocaust jokes because it's a natural coping mechanism for them, for everyone else it's a way of ignoring what happened or mitigating it.

Thats an interesting idea. Honestly, if a non-Jew made a Holocaust joke, Im not sure how funny Id find it. We dont want people to forget. Coping is essential, which is why we do it, but ignoring what happened? Never. You cant ignore something like that and expect it to not happen again. "Never forget" is basically our mantra.

[rajpoot]

There's a debate topic for you: at what point does humor become so offensive that it should not be said? Why is it OK for Jews to make jokes about the Holocaust, but not gentiles? Why is it acceptable for various minorities to use their own slurs in humor, but not acceptable for people outside that minority to use them? Is it possible for someone outside a sensitive minority to make jokes about the minority without crossing this invisible line?

Depends from person to person IMO. For instance over here jokes about Sikhs are popular. I have Sikh friends who tend to get very offended if someone makes such a joke in their presence. On the other hand back in college I had another Sikh friend who actually used to come up with new jokes about Sikhs and told them to us.
If the members of the minority present in the company are OK with making jokes about themselves, they should be OK if someone else makes a joke in a similar vein and in that case no one outside that minority has the right to get hypersensitive and get offended (Kind of like what townhughthom said).

[Kadagar_AV]

Isn't the whole point of a joke to trivialise something?

So Jews are allowed to make Holocaust jokes because it's a natural coping mechanism for them, for everyone else it's a way of ignoring what happened or mitigating it.

This is also the prime reason people find jokes offensive - they take exception to the subject being trivialised.

Sums it up rather nicely.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Thats an interesting idea. Honestly, if a non-Jew made a Holocaust joke, Im not sure how funny Id find it. We dont want people to forget. Coping is essential, which is why we do it, but ignoring what happened? Never. You cant ignore something like that and expect it to not happen again. "Never forget" is basically our mantra.

The other side of it of course is that the Nazi's made jokes about it when they were at it, so by making the same jokes you're identifying with them.

At the same time - modern Germans need a coping mechanism too, just like I do for the ancestor who beat his wife repeatedly.

Another thing to be aware of is that the Holocaust is inevitably passing into history, and we need to let it.

[HoreTore]

Isn't the whole point of a joke to trivialise something?

I deeply disagree with that.

Jokes serve a myriad of purposes, among them is showing acceptance.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Isn't the whole point of a joke to trivialise something?

So Jews are allowed to make Holocaust jokes because it's a natural coping mechanism for them, for everyone else it's a way of ignoring what happened or mitigating it.

This is also the prime reason people find jokes offensive - they take exception to the subject being trivialised.

If people are doing it as a coping mechanism then I won't be so abhorred by it and I will sympathise - either way, I won't find it funny.

I blame modern culture. I actually believe most people are uncomfortable with the most offensive jokes. But if you take the position I am taking here, it's obviously because you are boring, uptight, or a middle-class white guy that's offended by everything. As opposed to, you know, just being of the belief that atrocities are not something to be mocked.

And so people try to be edgy and cool by going along with it. But half the time they are never very convincing because if you are the sort of person that would act a certain way just because of peer pressure, you're not very edgy or cool anyway and they just end up making it look awkward.

Maybe for hooahguy it's also a way of rejecting something he doesn't identify with anymore. Is it a coincidence that he should be the first in this thread to bring up holocaust jokes? And what is he trying to say by doing so?

All of the above is of course pure speculation, but it's worth throwing out there.

[TinCow]

Isn't the whole point of a joke to trivialise something?

So Jews are allowed to make Holocaust jokes because it's a natural coping mechanism for them, for everyone else it's a way of ignoring what happened or mitigating it.

Yes, but even then it's hard to draw the line. Mel Brooks specifically makes fun of Hitler and the Nazis because he wants to belittle them and take away some of the power from their 'legend.' At the same time, he also disapproves of humor about the Holocaust itself, and he's said that Life is Beautiful was not funny and was offensive because of its subject matter. I disagree with him and find his personal line to be flawed, but then again his family was a lot closer to the Holocaust than mine. My family moved to the US so long ago that we no longer had any known (Jewish) relatives in Europe at the time of the war. He also lived through the event, whereas I didn't even live through Vietnam. In that sense, I think one of his own quotes applies to him; "Bad taste is simply saying the truth before it should be said."

[johnhughthom]

A lot of the point of offensive jokes is to be offensive, the clue is in the name. People say them for the shock value, and if you get all Rhyf over them, then you are the victim of the joke, not whatever group is being mocked. I used to work with a guy who told a lot of dead baby/paedophile jokes just to get a reaction. I ignored them and he stopped using them in my presence, pretty soon my co-workers realised that was the best way to stop him coming out with them.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

... At the same time, he also disapproves of humor about the Holocaust itself, and he's said that Life is Beautiful was not funny and was offensive because of its subject matter.

I thought that film humorous and free-spirited at its outset, but thought the humor was mostly an expression of despair, defiance, and desperation for the bulk of the film. Really didn't see it as a comedy or an overly "light" treatment. Disagree with Mel on that one.

[Papewaio]

Problem with the Holocaust joke and saying 'I'm a Jew so it's fine for me to joke about it.' Why can't other people joke about it?

It's not like a racist term which applies to a singular minority. Last time I looked at those who died by the hands of Germans as prisoners it wasn't exclusive to one group. Germans weren't particular exclusive in their hate of minorities. All you needed to be was gay, handicapped, homeless, Roma, Jew, Russian, free masons, politically opposed ... In fact the list of who got murdered as a prisoner is about the most inclusive thing that was done in that period.

So the issue I have isn't the Identifying of Jews with the Holocaust. It is the almost silent assumption it was only about them made by saying I'm a Jew so I can make a joke about it.

A) The subject matter is still distasteful to some people as even now as people havn't learnt about eugenics.
B) Practically every other person has some aspect either of themselves or a family member who would fit the murder list of WW II Germany.

[Fragony]

Problem with the Holocaust joke and saying 'I'm a Jew so it's fine for me to joke about it.' Why can't other people joke about it?

It's not like a racist term which applies to a singular minority. Last time I looked at those who died by the hands of Germans as prisoners it wasn't exclusive to one group. Germans weren't particular exclusive in their hate of minorities. All you needed to be was gay, handicapped, homeless, Roma, Jew, Russian, free masons, politically opposed ... In fact the list of who got murdered as a prisoner is about the most inclusive thing that was done in that period.

So the issue I have isn't the Identifying of Jews with the Holocaust. It is the almost silent assumption it was only about them made by saying I'm a Jew so I can make a joke about it.

A) The subject matter is still distasteful to some people as even now as people havn't learnt about eugenics.
B) Practically every other person has some aspect either of themselves or a family member who would fit the murder list of WW II Germany.

What's the problem with indentifying the holocaust with jews. They were hunted down specifically. More Dutchmen died than jews but there is a difference

[Rhyfelwyr]

I think the popular perception is that the holocuast was directed pretty much exclusively against Jews. Guys here might know better, but I guess the average disabled person or homosexual wouldn't take as much personal offence with holocaust jokes as many Jews would.

[Papewaio]

Nothing wrong with identifying a group with the Holocaust. Problem with only readily acknowledging a single group with it.

One of the biggest lessons to learn from WWII is that setting up an exclusive group who can euthanize, sterilize and terrorize minorities under there control leads to terrible outcomes.

Not only that when a group feels that it can legitimately punish other groups and quits having empathy for them it is a steady downwards spiral in abuses.

Humans are all vulnerable. We all are capable of amazing and terrifying feats. When we start justifying transgressions against others not on their singluar actions but instead punish them based on their group awful things occur.

Key lesson is exclusive rights can and will get abused if not vetted, balanced and checked.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I deeply disagree with that.

Jokes serve a myriad of purposes, among them is showing acceptance.

Only in social groups (like teenage boys) where jokes and put-downs are used as a means of stratifying the group.

A lot of the point of offensive jokes is to be offensive, the clue is in the name. People say them for the shock value, and if you get all Rhyf over them, then you are the victim of the joke, not whatever group is being mocked. I used to work with a guy who told a lot of dead baby/paedophile jokes just to get a reaction. I ignored them and he stopped using them in my presence, pretty soon my co-workers realised that was the best way to stop him coming out with them.

Well, that's one way, another way is to look right at them and tell them that's not clever or funny with as much venom as you can muster - at which point you'll usually get a tirade about how you "can't take a joke". Then you just say, "well you can't tell one."

[Hooahguy]

Nothing wrong with identifying a group with the Holocaust. Problem with only readily acknowledging a single group with it.

One of the biggest lessons to learn from WWII is that setting up an exclusive group who can euthanize, sterilize and terrorize minorities under there control leads to terrible outcomes.

Not only that when a group feels that it can legitimately punish other groups and quits having empathy for them it is a steady downwards spiral in abuses.

Humans are all vulnerable. We all are capable of amazing and terrifying feats. When we start justifying transgressions against others not on their singluar actions but instead punish them based on their group awful things occur.

Key lesson is exclusive rights can and will get abused if not vetted, balanced and checked.

Id say that the main three target groups of the Holocaust were Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals. The disabled were targeted, but not fully under the "Final Solution." They were under the "Action T4" plan.

Anyhow, the #1 victims that everyone identifies with the Holocaust are the Jews. Its an undeniable fact. So why cant others joke about it? Well, you can, theres nothing stopping you, but if you arent Jewish then people arent going to feel comfortable laughing, its just the way things are. Why? Same reason why people who arent black cant say the n word without others thinking they are racist. Chances are, if you had white relatives who lived before/during the civil rights era I bet they werent exactly the kindest people to black people. Likewise, if you had non-jewish ancestors in Europe Id wager that they were involved in some sort of anti-Semitic activity. Is it a generalization? Absolutely. Is it a just generalization? Probably not, but it exists. But if you are not a part of this exclusive group of the oppressed, you are not welcome to joke about it with us.

[Greyblades]

Would the target of the joke make a difference between being socially acceptable for other groups to use them? For example if I a white anglosaxon make a joke about the Holocaust but it's making fun of the Nazis not the victims, would that be considered unacceptable or in poor taste?

[Visor]

How well a joke is received depends not only in the circumstances in which you tell it, but who you tell it to. Make note of your company before telling a dark joke.

I'm a big fan of dark humour, but I don't go around telling everyone about Diana hitting a wall or what have you, or use it to break the ice or whatever.

For example, amongst most of my friends, we all don't mind or enjoy dark humour. But if I had to tell a joke to my mum, I wouldn't say the same jokes. (I have told her the Diana jokes, which she laughed guiltily at, but that wasn't really that bad (offensive) a joke).

I would never make a dead baby joke to someone who has lost a child, but I might crack a dark joke in reference to another topic.

However, there are always people who get offended at everything, so sometimes you can't really help it.

[Hooahguy]

Would the target of the joke make a difference between being socially acceptable for other groups to use them? For example if I a white anglosaxon make a joke about the Holocaust but it's making fun of the Nazis not the victims, would that be considered unacceptable or in poor taste?

No, because everyone hates the nazis.

[Papewaio]

Greasy Golden Shower likes the Nazis.

I mean Greece's Golden Dawn...

[Fragony]

I certainly can be accused of having a twisted sense of humour, but my inner civilized gentleman doesn't apreciate jokes that can be mean. Joking about the holocaust or other tragedies is tasteless in my opinion. If jews make jokes about the holocaust it is just different from me making them, for them it's healing, for me it would be mocking a major tragedy, I will never joke about it. Nothing wrong with pointing out absurdities in something but there is line between humour and bad taste

This

Q: How do You make a 6 year old cry a second time?
A: You wipe it off on her teddybear.

Absolutely is bad taste but is still funny as hell and perfectly acceptable

But people should know how far they can go, if you make that joke to someone who was abused, and you know that he/she was, you are just being a insensitive asshole

[a completely inoffensive name]

Trying to figure out what makes something funny kills the comedic value in that thing.

Whether or not a joke is offensive depends on what the intentions of the comedian are.

This man is trying to get us to think about how we use language:


This guy is just being angry (because he was angry) and shockful:


If there is a purpose behind the madness, the joke is justified. If you are just shouting n-word! n-word! for shock only, that doesn't justify the feelings and trivialization that all such humor brings.

[Fragony]

Pretty easy, when a joke starts becomming an insult you should know where to stop.

[Montmorency]

Whether or not a joke is offensive depends on what the intentions of the comedian are.

then there is no rule

[a completely inoffensive name]

then there is no rule

Exactly.

[Beskar]

Most of the time it is delivery. Ever had that person who makes really witty comments, but no one laughs, but when some one copies it and says it, everyone laughs?

Most of the consistently rated good jokes are actually that bad, people laugh out of how terrible they are. Like Xmas cracker jokes. usually because of no intellectual barrier to understand them.

[Strike For The South]

Jewish women have long dark hair which is great for leverage.

They also tend to be intelligent, which I don't care about, but it is something I mention when I need to be sociable.

[Montmorency]

They also tend to be intelligent,

You son of a , that's my sister you're talking about!