responding to common objections to bible

[Sigurd]

I am the definition of agnostic. If you disagree with this, you are either a theist or an atheist.

OMG @LittleGrizzly. Loooooong time no see. How are you m8?

[The Stranger]

I'm not trying to give you proof of anything. Why am I even in this thread? I hate these threads.

yup. some people can only see the scientific method and jargon of proof as the only way to talk about things in the "world". but ye its hard to get out of your box.

[The Stranger]

What is it with you lot?

Atheists have no belief. An absence of it. There's the clue.

It's as though you just cannot comprehend that anyone may not have any belief at all.

Brainwashing is extraordinary.

LOL what is it with you? you just take a definition of a word and completely twist it. look it up, it is a REJECTION of belief, first and foremost. read my post. Then read up about SKEPTICISM, and the fact that REJECTING TRUTH is just as DOGMATIC and as much a BELIEF as ACCEPTING TRUTH. Having no belief is SKEPTICISM.

Do not confuse the neutral use of belief, with the more coloured and day to day use of belief, which is better defined as religious faith or a religious wordlview.

Yes, it seems brainwashing is almost as extraordinary as stubbornly walking through life making up things as you go.

[The Stranger]

I describe myself as an atheist, although I don't deny the extreme outside possibility of a god...

To give you a better idea my belief there could be a god is as strong as my belief that

1) We all live in the Matrix
2) I am the star of my very own Truman show (you guys would tell me right?)
3) 9/11 was an inside job.

I have very little belief in any of them (in fact 3 seems the most realistic to me but I am not at all a truther or believe that) in fact my belief in god and the matrix is about as close to 0 as you can get...

I would even say number 2 is more likely to me, in fact in thinking on it I even find number 1 a more realistic possibility than a God figure.

Would I really be defined as anything but an Atheist with such a small small window of possibility I am leaving open, I can't know for sure that I am not going to spread my wings and turn into an Eagle (through some kind of magic I assume) but I would also take the Atheism (Atheism = can't Agnostic = possibly Believer = will in this example) position on my ability to turn into an Eagle... that basically it isn't going to happen though if pressed there is no way I can 100% say I am not going to turn into an Eagle..

So I have always thought Atheist, would that be accurate in your eyes?

my first thought would be Agnost. But after rereading its probably a very very weak position of Atheism (because you are just playing a trick on yourself, you don't actually have real doubt and thus you do not really believe in the possibility of turning into an eagle or there being a god, you are pretending, whether to yourself or to other people i dont know). In general, rejection = atheism, acceptance = theism, postponing judgment = agnosticism and there is another one, indifference = apatheism

in the end the debate about whether or not god exists is mostly an epistemological problem, so all the problems about justification, skepticism, induction and deduction apply.

[a completely inoffensive name]

LOL what is it with you?

LOL What is it with you asking what it is to be is it? Belief is the opposite of atheism man. Go read God Delusion and 420 blaze it every day if you want to know what enlightenment actually is. Go live in your Dark Age mentality bro, the only brainwashed are the theists who think that Jesus actually existed. the free world, science can explain everything cuz Carl Sagan did just that on Cosmos. Maybe there is no tv besides Bible TV Channel in your house?

[The Stranger]

LOL What is it with you asking what it is to be is it? Belief is the opposite of atheism man. Go read God Delusion and 420 blaze it every day if you want to know what enlightenment actually is. Go live in your Dark Age mentality bro, the only brainwashed are the theists who think that Jesus actually existed. the free world, science can explain everything cuz Carl Sagan did just that on Cosmos. Maybe there is no tv besides Bible TV Channel in your house?

read my post please? There is a neutral version of the word belief, that is the word i am using. Atheism is not "not having a belief that there is a god" it is "having the belief that there is no god".

I'm not even a theist, so I do not know what dark age mentality you are talking about, except what you are showing now, denouncing other people as heretics and ignorants basically because they say something you havent heard of. And jumping to conclusions you know nothing about. I'm an atheist in the strict sense of the word, though it doesnt matter in this discussion what my personal convictions are.

I'm writing a thesis on this subject, i know what i am talking about. Instead of being a jerk, maybe you should read some stuff, i can recommend wikipedia to start with, its easy and clear and you dont need to read past the first chapter to see you are wrong. Then if you are still interested I can give you some more advanced lecture.

[Kadagar_AV]

"I'm writing a thesis on this subject, i know what i am talking about."

If everyone writing a thesis would have a clue, the world would look very different.

That was just a horribly bad argument.

[The Stranger]

"I'm writing a thesis on this subject, i know what i am talking about."

If everyone writing a thesis would have a clue, the world would look very different.

That was just a horribly bad argument.

it would be if this was not a matter of definitions. but yes, i agree that the knowing part does not follow from the writing part.

[a completely inoffensive name]

read my post please? There is a neutral version of the word belief, that is the word i am using. Atheism is not "not having a belief that there is a god" it is "having the belief that there is no god".

I'm not even a theist, so I do not know what dark age mentality you are talking about, except what you are showing now, denouncing other people as heretics and ignorants basically because they say something you havent heard of. And jumping to conclusions you know nothing about. I'm an atheist in the strict sense of the word, though it doesnt matter in this discussion what my personal convictions are.

I'm writing a thesis on this subject, i know what i am talking about. Instead of being a jerk, maybe you should read some stuff, i can recommend wikipedia to start with, its easy and clear and you dont need to read past the first chapter to see you are wrong. Then if you are still interested I can give you some more advanced lecture.

Dude, I'm so sorry but I was just joking with you. My post was so over the top, I thought it was obvious.

[Hax]

Yeah, science is just another opinion!

[The Stranger]

Dude, I'm so sorry but I was just joking with you. My post was so over the top, I thought it was obvious.

lol i had a feeling when i reread it that it might be a joke, but in my defense ive heard similar responses before so i wasnt too surprised. i dont visit the backroom too often so i dont really know what many peoples views are.

[a completely inoffensive name]

lol i had a feeling when i reread it that it might be a joke, but in my defense ive heard similar responses before so i wasnt too surprised. i dont visit the backroom too often so i dont really know what many peoples views are.

Other people have legitimately told you that Jesus wasn't real and to smoke pot every day?

[The Stranger]

Other people have legitimately told you that Jesus wasn't real and to smoke pot every day?

when did you tell me to smoke pot :O i missed that part. and i dont care if jesus was real or not, just don't fk up your definitions is all i ask for :P

[Kadagar_AV]

when did you tell me to smoke pot :O i missed that part. and i dont care if jesus was real or not, just don't fk up your definitions is all i ask for :P

420 blazer

[LittleGrizzly]

I am the definition of agnostic. If you disagree with this, you are either a theist or an atheist.

OMG @LittleGrizzly. Loooooong time no see. How are you m8?

Well at this very moment terrible, the ravages of man flu are taking me down. This combined with having a new carpet fitted from this morning, which involves far too much hitting of things with heavy objects for me liking means I have a lovely headache as well...

In the long run okay though, still alive and all my limbs are fully functional. How about you?

[LittleGrizzly]

my first thought would be Agnost. But after rereading its probably a very very weak position of Atheism (because you are just playing a trick on yourself, you don't actually have real doubt and thus you do not really believe in the possibility of turning into an eagle or there being a god, you are pretending, whether to yourself or to other people i dont know).
...........................................................................

The Eagle one is possibly to extreme to get my point across, if I were to change it to a football (soccer) one then for example San Marino winning the world cup. Nobody can say with 100% certainty that San Marino will never win the world cup but with the possibility remaining so slim that you would almost call it a certainty..

[The Stranger]

i guess ur in a grey area, but probably closer to a weak version of atheism than to agnosticism, so you would be an agnostic atheist and leave open the possibility that if we could find out more about the matter than you or others could be proven wrong.

[Kadagar_AV]

i guess ur in a grey area, but probably closer to a weak version of atheism than to agnosticism, so you would be an agnostic atheist and leave open the possibility that if we could find out more about the matter than you or others could be proven wrong.

You actually spend brain power on this non-issue? If You go back a load of posts You will see me writing something along the lines of "I am probably technically agnostic, but for all intents and purposes You might as well view me as atheist".

Kind of summed it up AGES ago.

Why are we spending brain power on this absolute NON-issue? I don't think ANYONE here say that there are absolutely no possibility for some sort of god. The worst You will find on this forum is people asking You to prove the existence of YOUR god before trying to change their lives and thinking in his name.

[The Stranger]

You actually spend brain power on this non-issue? If You go back a load of posts You will see me writing something along the lines of "I am probably technically agnostic, but for all intents and purposes You might as well view me as atheist".

Kind of summed it up AGES ago.

Why are we spending brain power on this absolute NON-issue? I don't think ANYONE here say that there are absolutely no possibility for some sort of god. The worst You will find on this forum is people asking You to prove the existence of YOUR god before trying to change their lives and thinking in his name.

was it a response to you? no. littlegrizzley actually asked a serious question, so he got a serious answer. and Insane Apache just used the entire wrong definition of atheism so if you are so clever that you can read a dictionary and use the words atheism and agnosticism correct, then good for you, here is a cookie.

[HoreTore]

This is just like a discussion of who is the true communist; Stalin, Mao or Trotskij.

Thank you for bringing up bad memories from my radical days.

Bastards.

[Kadagar_AV]

This is just like a discussion of who is the true communist; Stalin, Mao or Trotskij.

Thank you for bringing up bad memories from my radical days.

Bastards.

Result: They were all less communist than You?

[LittleGrizzly]

Thanks for the answer, I kind of imagined my position as a weak atheist one just wanted to know what others would class it as.

[HoreTore]

Result: They were all less communist than You?

When did we start capitalizing the word "you"?

Also, leftist discussions have no result, they never end. No true leftie will ever admit to agreeing with a fellow leftie. Ever.

[Kadagar_AV]

When did we start capitalizing the word "you"?

Also, leftist discussions have no result, they never end. No true leftie will ever admit to agreeing with a fellow leftie. Ever.

Good question....

Lets face it. English is a stupid language.

There is no egg in the eggplant
No ham in the hamburger
And neither pine nor apple in the pineapple.
English muffins were not invented in England
French fries were not invented in France.

We sometimes take English for granted,
But if we examine its paradoxes we find that:
Quicksand takes you down slowly
Boxing rings are square
And a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.

If writers write, how come fingers don't fing.
If the plural of tooth is teeth
Shouldn't the plural of phone booth be phone beeth
If the teacher taught,
Why didn't the preacher praught.

If a vegetarian eats vegetables
What the heck does a humanitarian eat!?
Why do people recite at a play
Yet play at a recital?
Park on driveways and
Drive on parkways
How can the weather be as hot as hell on one day
And as cold as hell on another

You have to marvel at the unique lunacy
Of a language where a house can burn up as
It burns down
And in which you fill in a form
By filling it out
And a bell is only heard once it goes!

English was invented by people, not computers
And it reflects the creativity of the human race
(Which of course isn't a race at all)

That is why:
When the stars are out they are visible
But when the lights are out they are invisible
And why it is that when I wind up my watch
It starts
But when I wind up this poem
It ends.

[Sigurd]

This last discussion reminded me of something we did back in the good old days... about 10 years ago. (Damn I have been on these boards a long time)
Also, did you notice that we discussed these things in the entrance hall?

The thread is gone from the backroom.. as the link in my post is dead. We quite exhaustedly debated theism vs atheism vs agnosticism and would be a great source for you Stranger.
Maybe it could be salvaged from some old backup? its way back in 2003.

[The Stranger]

what was the link with communism? :P

[Brenus]

"No true leftie will ever admit to agreeing with a fellow leftie. Ever." Part of the job description.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Do not expect to get an answer on these boards, as the more religious patrons seem to avoid these topics.
IMO there are too many heavy guns on one side.
But hey, you never know. One full blood believer might wander unawares into this Lion’s den, where BIG dark figures armed to the teeth with heavy calibre weaponry lurks, waiting for the perfect prey.

I was going to make a quip about failing to see the value in a topic on atheism/theism I hadn't contributed to.

Seems the Backroom was waiting for me even then.

(I jest, but it says something about the change in make up of the forum).

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Do not expect to get an answer on these boards, as the more religious patrons seem to avoid these topics.
IMO there are too many heavy guns on one side.
But hey, you never know. One full blood believer might wander unawares into this Lion’s den, where BIG dark figures armed to the teeth with heavy calibre weaponry lurks, waiting for the perfect prey.

I was going to make a quip about failing to see the value in a topic on atheism/theism I hadn't contributed to.

Seems the Backroom was waiting for me even then.

(I jest, but it says something about the change in make up of the forum).

[Kadagar_AV]

I was going to make a quip about failing to see the value in a topic on atheism/theism I hadn't contributed to.

Seems the Backroom was waiting for me even then.

(I jest, but it says something about the change in make up of the civilized world).

FIFY