Why this adulation for Ghandi, this fraud?

[Greyblades]

When I think of Ghandi I cannot help but say; meh.

Okay more like I have a level of ambivalence that is generally a stalemate between "great that he managed to start a precident of great change without bloodshed" and "did he really have to campaign for independence, what's wrong with emancipation and equality in a joined India and Britain?"

[rajpoot]

Okay more like I have a level of ambivalence that is generally a stalemate between "great that he managed to start a precident of great change without bloodshed" and "did he really have to campaign for independence, what's wrong with emancipation and equality in a joined India and Britain?"

JFR crediting Gandhi with beginning the struggle for independence of India is wrong. Political leaders, even before Gandhi had entered the scene, had been struggling to get some sort of autonomy for India.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

JFR crediting Gandhi with beginning the struggle for independence of India is wrong. Political leaders, even before Gandhi had entered the scene, had been struggling to get some sort of autonomy for India.

And they had been getting it - the Indian Parliament was created under the Raj, the argument was over the timetable, Ghandi and others wanted to go quickly and were insulted by the British Administration telling them India wasn't ready to be self-governing.

The British were dead right - which is why today Imperial India has been split into three belligerent nations, one of which has only just had it's first peaceful (relatively speaking) democratic transfer of power.

Brennus may have a point - that Ghandi's non-violent agitation was largely a hastening which was ill-advised. Rather like the US before it, India insisted on a violent transformation to self-rule rather than a managed one. On the other hand, without Ghandi it would have been the same, but with a war.

[Brenus]

“these Loyalist British and Americans just love to Colonize and plunder” Dam right. And what is this in relation with my point of an overrated hero?

“not even rebellion” You should read more about recent history of India.

“what have YOU done for the world?!” Personal Attack: Well, I could point out that I went to Kurdistan after Desert Storm Operation and Provide Comfort, and I (not only) save the life of a small girl in giving my blood in a village near Erbil.
I, with others, refurbished the Local health Centre and I, with others, had a vaccination Campaign for the young Children for the valleys in the neighbourhood. Ah, I was near to forget: evacuation of the injured civilians during the Turkish Air Attacks against the so-called bases of the PKK..
For the rest of the World, I went in 2 others countries in war (Bosnia & Yemen), and help to organised 2 vaccination Campaigns (the then Zaire and Niger). Next questions?

You approve the fact that an old man, in order to test himself asked to sleep with naked (very) young virgins is ok for you, then you claim a moral superiority…

“it was your USA & BRITAIN”: ?

“And his views were not always popular; "abnormal and unnatural" was how the first Prime Minister of independent India, Jawaharlal Nehru, described Gandhi's advice to newlyweds to stay celibate for the sake of their souls.” “(which included, alongside his famed chastity, sleeping naked next to nubile, naked women to test his restraint)” The Independent, 07 APRIL 2010. Article from Jad Adams, Book: Gandhi: Naked Ambition is published by Quercus .

“Eighteen-year-old Abha, the wife of Gandhi's grandnephew Kanu Gandhi, rejoined Gandhi's entourage in the run-up to independence in 1947 and by the end of August he was sleeping with both Manu and Abha at the same time.” “While in Bengal to see what comfort he could offer in times of inter-communal violence in the run-up to independence, Gandhi called for his 18-year-old grandniece Manu to join him – and sleep with him”. Great. No?

About Ghandi and the Non-violence: George Orwell had to say about him:
Gandhi has been regarded for twenty years by the Government of India as one of its right hand men. I know what I'm talking about-I used to be an officer in the Indian police. It was always admitted in the most cynical way that Gandhi made it easier for the British to rule India, because his influ#ence was always against taking any action that would make any difference.
The reason why Gandhi when in prison is always treated with such lenience and small concessions sometimes made when he has prolonged one of his fasts to a dangerous extent, is that the British officials are in terror that he may die and be replaced by someone who believes less in "soul force " and more in bombs.

[Ironside]

About Ghandi and the Non-violence: George Orwell had to say about him:
Gandhi has been regarded for twenty years by the Government of India as one of its right hand men. I know what I'm talking about-I used to be an officer in the Indian police. It was always admitted in the most cynical way that Gandhi made it easier for the British to rule India, because his influ#ence was always against taking any action that would make any difference.
The reason why Gandhi when in prison is always treated with such lenience and small concessions sometimes made when he has prolonged one of his fasts to a dangerous extent, is that the British officials are in terror that he may die and be replaced by someone who believes less in "soul force " and more in bombs.

That would be a sign of non-violence. It's persistant rather than anything. Taking very aggressive non-violence actions may very well force the other part to use large scale violence, which will quickly escalate. India was quite a big powder cag and you had people like Chandra Bose (who joined the Axis during WWII) as influencial players.

[Empire*Of*Media]

“these Loyalist British and Americans just love to Colonize and plunder” Dam right. And what is this in relation with my point of an overrated hero?

Because These Insults or So Called Criticizes to gandhi is by your lovely Imperialists that hate him!! no normal person with no Imperialistic Political View can hate gandhi!

“not even rebellion” You should read more about recent history of India.

i know, i meant an angry rebellion led by Gandhi himself not peoples by themselves!! Gandhi Denied any violence, he just encouraged people to sit-in like the SALT Strike.

“what have YOU done for the world?!” Personal Attack: Well, I could point out that I went to Kurdistan after Desert Storm Operation and Provide Comfort, and I (not only) save the life of a small girl in giving my blood in a village near Erbil.
I, with others, refurbished the Local health Center and I, with others, had a vaccination Campaign for the young Children for the valleys in the neighbourhood. Ah, I was near to forget: evacuation of the injured civilians during the Turkish Air Attacks against the so-called bases of the PKK..

What?! your Soldier?! and How an AGED soldier (because it was 1991 and now you must be upper than 45!!) have plenty of time to play Total War and be Online in ORG for most of his time?!!!!
anyway we suppose your right, but in 1991 USA Promised Kurds to help them against Saddam Genocide and there to be autonomous, but as soon as Saddam left Kuwait they betrayed the Kurds and they left too, shamefuly, so no major war was in Kurdistan in time of US Invasion, the war started when USA left, and it was then, that time when Franceua Miteran(dont know spelling french) requested for 3 years!!, to pass No-Fly Border in Kurdistan of Iraq's Skies.(The Land War Continued!) AND The Turkish Bombards was in the Area where was peace and there was no american army there, americans were in southern while the northern and center was safe & in Peace!!(and 90% Bombards were after 2008)
so any other lies ?! AT ALL, how can a good man hate an undeniable Peace & Freedom Symbol of Humanity?!(whether you agree with it or not)

You approve the fact that an old man, in order to test himself asked to sleep with naked (very) young virgins is ok for you, then you claim a moral superiority…
“it was your USA & BRITAIN”: ?

“And his views were not always popular; "abnormal and unnatural" was how the first Prime Minister of independent India, Jawaharlal Nehru, described Gandhi's advice to newlyweds to stay celibate for the sake of their souls.” “(which included, alongside his famed chastity, sleeping naked next to nubile, naked women to test his restraint)” The Independent, 07 APRIL 2010. Article from Jad Adams, Book: Gandhi: Naked Ambition is published by Quercus .

“Eighteen-year-old Abha, the wife of Gandhi's grandnephew Kanu Gandhi, rejoined Gandhi's entourage in the run-up to independence in 1947 and by the end of August he was sleeping with both Manu and Abha at the same time.” “While in Bengal to see what comfort he could offer in times of inter-communal violence in the run-up to independence, Gandhi called for his 18-year-old grandniece Manu to join him – and sleep with him”. Great. No?

About Ghandi and the Non-violence: George Orwell had to say about him:
Gandhi has been regarded for twenty years by the Government of India as one of its right hand men. I know what I'm talking about-I used to be an officer in the Indian police. It was always admitted in the most cynical way that Gandhi made it easier for the British to rule India, because his influ#ence was always against taking any action that would make any difference.
The reason why Gandhi when in prison is always treated with such lenience and small concessions sometimes made when he has prolonged one of his fasts to a dangerous extent, is that the British officials are in terror that he may die and be replaced by someone who believes less in "soul force " and more in bombs.

ah and thats some other ****ing lies & False propagandas Those damn Imperialists say!!!! what! you want people Believe the words(Lies) from the Enemies of the India & The World?!! you bring sources from ENGLISH(& American) Colonists and Imperialists that Their Great Power and Cruelty was defeated and Kneel ed before Gandhi's Powerful Peace andlenity?!!! and thus, they hate him, the cause of The End Of Colonization and Slavery & Great Profits from India?!?!?!? now thats why you hate him!!! you are just a supporter if Imperials and their Lies, what much should i expect ?!!

Anyway, not you nor your Imperialist Friends can blacken The Great Personality of a Peace & Prosperity & Freedom & Purity & Fighting Peacefully against Tyranny & Oppression & Colonizations Symbol in Human's History That was not even Darkned in his years of Prison & Torture in English Jails!!
how can a man both be lust worshiper and The Peace & Freedom Fighter!!?? maybe MAYBE he has done somethings in his Younger age,and nothing truly shameful, just Naturality of Younger ages, but in times of taking action for the world's Peace & Freedom, no doubt that he will FAIL!! because he is lying or the way false!! we had so much people did for peace & Freedom for the people in the world against tyranny & oppression & Imperialism, but many failed, and only some Like: Jesus, Martin Luther King, Mother Teresa, Nilson Mandela.....came out prosperous and successful and Being Loved & Worshiped!! so how a deviated man can Win and shake the Great Imperialistic Power?!!

i think you and your Imperialist Friends hate This kind of symbols and Ideologies and make Lies for them, because 1. The Imperialist Rulers & Governments of yours see it against their Slavering & Colonization Benefits, so the Blacking and Insulting Propaganda Starts!! 2. because Western countries did not/have not/will not have these Great Peoples. Mother Teresa & martin Luther King & ... does not Represent Westerns, Christians & Black People fought against Racism, i dont think they represent the Western!!
plus, you couldnt even have a Lie reply for others of my tells that you didnt mention it!(Somehow jumped & absconded!) because you dont have anything to say!!

and sorry, i dont mean any offense or insult to you, i just cant accept ignorance & listening to some lies by the Powerful, to make you believe what is not !! i will defend Peace & Freedom and its Leaders & symbols until my death & to last blood, Against the Dictators and Imperialists!!

Hope Freedom and Peace For All Universe !!

[rajpoot]

And they had been getting it - the Indian Parliament was created under the Raj, the argument was over the timetable, Ghandi and others wanted to go quickly and were insulted by the British Administration telling them India wasn't ready to be self-governing.

Most 18-year-olds would feel offended if someone was to tell them that they weren't ready to face life and start making their own decisions. Saying that to an entire nation had a good chance of offending the majority of the populace.
The British might have been right, I agree. A more gradual approach towards independence might have led to a more peaceful future. But then it is in the nature of man to want to make their own mistakes and learn from them the hard way instead of just accepting someone else sage advice. Had it not been so we wouldn't have been men at all.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Most 18-year-olds would feel offended if someone was to tell them that they weren't ready to face life and start making their own decisions. Saying that to an entire nation had a good chance of offending the majority of the populace.
The British might have been right, I agree. A more gradual approach towards independence might have led to a more peaceful future. But then it is in the nature of man to want to make their own mistakes and learn from them the hard way instead of just accepting someone else sage advice. Had it not been so we wouldn't have been men at all.

Compare With Canada, which severed it's final formal ties with the British Parliament in the 1980's. Bear in mind that Canada had/has similar ethnic and religious issues to pre-Independence India and concerns were expressed explicitly by British officials.

Maybe it's because the British were seen as White - which feeds back to Brennus' point, we were assumed to have ulterior motives because we were seen as filthy barbarians.

[Sarmatian]

Ghandi, Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King Jr, Nelson Mandela - all deeply flawed and even reprehensible characters who gained a misplaced 'hero' status because of the fact that they happened to oppose some sort of 'Imperialist' order.

I don't know how much truth there is in many of the particular accusations surrounding Ghandi. But sleeping naked with young women screams abuse of power to me, whatever he claims to have been doing.

In what way "deeply flawed"?

When I think of Ghandi I cannot help but say; meh.

Okay more like I have a level of ambivalence that is generally a stalemate between "great that he managed to start a precident of great change without bloodshed" and "did he really have to campaign for independence, what's wrong with emancipation and equality in a joined India and Britain?"

Your idea of emancipation and equality of joined India and Britain would have been - British PM sitting in London, parliament in London and government in London. All British naturally, with an Indian or two thrown in to "represent" them.

True "joined India and Britain" would be the exact opposite - but naturally no one in Britain would accept to be governed from New Delhi by Indians.

[Slyspy]

In what way "deeply flawed"?

I think he means that they turned out to be just people after all.

As for Greyblades' "joined India and Britain" I can't even imagine how that would have worked.

[Sarmatian]

I think he means that they turned out to be just people after all.

And tell me a person in politics (of note) who didn't? By that reasoning everyone is a deeply flawed character, from Caesar to Obama, making the point moot.

[rvg]

Gandhi was a great man, far greater than most leaders of today.

[Greyblades]

I think he means that they turned out to be just people after all.

As for Greyblades' "joined India and Britain" I can't even imagine how that would have worked.

Gritted teeth and a lot of patience. Stranger things have happened and few more deserving.