Legalized Marijuana

[rvg]

Free coke/heroin for everyone!

[Idaho]

Free coke/heroin for everyone!

Would solve more problems than it causes probably.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Free coke/heroin for everyone!

Patently silly. Nothing is free. The only question is who pays and how.


I've agreed with the point made so well above by the Lemur for some time now. Our war on drugs is a King Canute effort.


You want to stop drug use/marijuana use? Teach people why it isn't a good idea and let them choose not to do so. If they choose to do so, there will be a market. Where there is a market, a provider will arise.

Only the most draconian efforts can curtail this kind of market -- summary execution of users caught for example -- and even then it cannot eradicate it. The police measures needed to curtail drug use in the USA would make the Patriot Act provisions look like the soul of rights-protection.

[Idaho]

If the war on drugs was draconian but effective then we would be arguing over liberty versus safety. However it's draconian, ineffective and counterproductive.

[Fragony]

If the war on drugs was draconian but effective then we would be arguing over liberty versus safety. However it's draconian, ineffective and counterproductive.

Full legalisation and taking over the production is also draconian, ineffectice and counterproductive as well. Why does there have to be a point in it being legal that always confuses me, there are so many dumb laws that are just ignored, so why not just ignore the law when it suits you. You won't get rid of the criminal networks behind it but at least you can have a nice smoke in your garden

[LittleGrizzly]

Full legalisation and taking over the production is also draconian, ineffectice and counterproductive as well.
....................................................

If the idea is to save money then drugs legalisation would be extremely effective...

It wouldn't just stop us wasting money but make us quite a bit of money in taxation as well. I wonder how much we make off alcohol and tobacco.

[Idaho]

Full legalisation and taking over the production is also draconian, ineffectice and counterproductive as well. Why does there have to be a point in it being legal that always confuses me, there are so many dumb laws that are just ignored, so why not just ignore the law when it suits you. You won't get rid of the criminal networks behind it but at least you can have a nice smoke in your garden

Because the rest of the world isn't populated by you crazy dutchmen The rest of us prefer to just change the law.

[The Lurker Below]

If I'm reading that graph correctly coke and heroin are nearly the same price at 100,000. I see that the product is scaled. I have some very large scales here. How much product can one get for that amount?

Only the most draconian efforts can curtail this kind of market -- summary execution of users caught for example -- and even then it cannot eradicate it. The police measures needed to curtail drug use in the USA would make the Patriot Act provisions look like the soul of rights-protection.

The television rights to this summary execution thing could generate quite a bit of revenue.

[Idaho]

I'm happy with the zero tolerance, summary execution for anyone with drugs in their system. My only requirement is that the families of politicians, judges, police and journalists are tested first.

[LittleGrizzly]

I'm happy with the zero tolerance, summary execution for anyone with drugs in their system. My only requirement is that the families of politicians, judges, police and journalists are tested first.

Sign me up for that one!

[Empire*Of*Media]

does consuming normaly Marjuana inflict bad things to human ?!!

i dont know mmuch about marijuana !!

[LittleGrizzly]

does consuming normaly Marjuana inflict bad things to human ?!!

i dont know mmuch about marijuana !!
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On a scale of caffeine, cigarettes and alcohol...

Caffeine
Marijuana
Cigarettes
Alcohol...

Although if you are eating the stuff rather than smoking it...

Marijuana
Caffeine
Cigarettes
Alcohol

Actually cigarettes and alcohol are probably the other way around if we are just talking about their effect on the person taking them... if you manage to avoid poisoning yourself with alcohol it is just everyone else who has to put up with your idiotic behaviour.

[Idaho]

Eh? Cigarettes kill ten times as many people as alcohol.

Personally I don't think you can measure relative drug harms on a 2D axis.

[LittleGrizzly]

Eh? Cigarettes kill ten times as many people as alcohol.
.....................................................

That is why I had my little disclaimer at the bottom...

If we are just talking effect on the user then Alcohol isn't nearly as bad as cigarettes but if we are talking about the user affecting other people than aside from a bad smell it is unlikely a smoker will affect you negatively*

*If you were to spend a lifetime performing in smoking clubs though then you would have to reverse it again but I can't imagine there are many people at all especially in our rich western democracies who are going to die of inhaling the cigarette smoke of other people only...

[drone]

Heroin doesn't do much damage to the human body either, apart from the physical addiction and the much lower LD50. The main problems with heroin addiction is the crap the dealers cut it with, and the crimes involved in paying for the next fix.

My drug is booze, I don't touch the illegal stuff, but anyone can see the sheer wastefulness of the war on drugs.

[Papewaio]

LG I think you need to review your data.

A very strong link between smoking and SIDS. It is not like the babies are lighting up. So it's pretty clear passive smoking is the culprit.

Longer term repercussions include asthma, hay fever and other immune response misfires.

[LittleGrizzly]

Always happy to be corrected.

We talking about pregnant women who smoke here then?

Just a quick read of wiki seems to make reference to babies in a passive smoking environment...

Admittedly babies didn't even cross my mind when I made the post so mea culpa.

[Papewaio]

http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/time-...-1226341476821


"Of the 67 babies who died of SIDS in the research group, 81 per cent were exposed to cigarette smoke.

International studies have shown the babies of mothers who smoke during pregnancy have a five-fold increase in the risk of SIDS, while babies born into a home where there is a smoker have a three-fold risk."

[LittleGrizzly]

I think I suffer the opposite problem too overly concerned parents and politicians where I never think of the children...

[Papewaio]

SIDS is just a very obvious case of second hand smoke as he babies aren't smoking.

Second hand smoke also affects older children and adults. Except it isn't as obvious until one delves into all the data.

[LittleGrizzly]

I would have thought the effects would be fairly negligible when it comes to adults (at least in countries with smoking bans) outside of some unfortunate and extreme circumstances.

[Lemur]

If I'm reading that graph correctly coke and heroin are nearly the same price at 100,000. I see that the product is scaled. I have some very large scales here. How much product can one get for that amount?

Yeah, obviously we're missing some data there. The only labeled axis is for prison population.

There's a lot more information here.

When it comes to drugs, it’s all about prices.

The ability to raise prices is– at least is perceived to be–a critical function of drug control policy. Higher prices discourage young people from using. Higher prices encourage adult users to consume less, to quit sooner, or to seek treatment. (Though higher prices can bring short-term problems, too, as drug users turn to crime to finance their increasingly unaffordable habit.)

An enormous law enforcement effort seeks to raise prices at every point in the supply chain from farmers to end-users: Eradicating coca crops in source countries, hindering access to chemicals required for drug production, interdicting smuggling routes internationally and within our borders, street-level police actions against local dealers.

That’s why this may be the most embarrassing graph in the history of drug control policy. (I’m grateful to Peter Reuter, Jonathan Caulkins, and Sarah Chandler for their willingness to share this figure from their work.) Law enforcement strategies have utterly failed to even maintain street prices of the key illicit substances. Street drug prices in the below figure fell by roughly a factor of five between 1980 and 2008. Meanwhile the number of drug offenders locked up in our jails and prisons went from fewer than 42,000 in 1980 to a peak of 562,000 in 2007.

[Fragony]

Because the rest of the world isn't populated by you crazy dutchmen The rest of us prefer to just change the law.

You are already ignoring laws, by law an officer still needs to carry a sword in trial I believe. Can change it but you can also just ignore it. You can just choose to not prosecute people who smoke some pot. It works great here with our coffeeshops, people can smoke there or at home without having to worry, and people who aren't into it don't even notice it exists. There is some etiquette, it's not ok to light one up if you are sitting on a terrace or other public places, parks are fine. You won't be into any trouble if the police sees you smoking anywhere but it's a bit of an unspoken deal to be discrete

[Idaho]

I am quite happy for you Dutch to keep your strange legal bodge. For my country I would like to see a properly worked out solution.

[Fragony]

I am quite happy for you Dutch to keep your strange legal bodge. For my country I would like to see a properly worked out solution.

I don't find it all that strange, really strange would be enforcing all laws as there are some really silly ones that make no sense nowadays whatsoever. It's just pragmatic to ignore some laws, shaking things up too much will probably do more harm than good. I tend to think that this whole legalisation-thing is more about recognition rather than liberty, but I don't need that all that much recognisition from people I wouldn't even drink a beer with. Easiest option is best.

[ICantSpellDawg]

The complete and utter failure of the drug war in a single graph. If the hundreds of billions we throw at this problem annually cannot keep the street price/purity down, then our position is unsupportable.

I don't see any sources for this graph. I like it and want to use it; if you would be so kind.

[Lemur]

I don't see any sources for this graph. I like it and want to use it; if you would be so kind.

Ah, you were deceived by the page break; I posted the source (with a reference to the PDF of the original research) here.

[HopAlongBunny]

It looks like the "push" is on from Big Marijuana:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...marijuana.html

[Idaho]

It's the American way alas. I would prefer a not-for-profit co-op style model.

[HopAlongBunny]

I just wonder if the model will follow beer/wine or whiskey.

Beer/wine are regulated/controlled but you can make your own as long as it is not for sale; whiskey etc. is "don't you dare!"
So will "freedom break out all over!" or will the state impose its iron-fist