Russian Anti-gay laws and violence, and the Olympic (Winter) Games.

[HoreTore]

Marriage is torture, that's an axiom. :)

On a serious note, I don't disagree that situation is bad in that regard in Russia. What I despise, though, is selective outrage over it.

South Africa is many, many times worse than Russia when it comes LGBT rights. Where was the outrage back then?

Where the outrage was? All over the place?

[Papewaio]

Apartheid South Africa got ostracised by the Commonwealth nations, trade bans and sports bans.

Not exactly the best one to pick as your defence.

"Your honour, where was the outrage about Nazi Germany in the early 40's" - Defendant
"Have you heard of WWII?" - Judge

[Sarmatian]

Where the outrage was? All over the place?

Yeah, but no one could hear it from the vuvuzelas, right? Got ya.

Apartheid South Africa got ostracised by the Commonwealth nations, trade bans and sports bans.

Not exactly the best one to pick as your defence.

"Your honour, where was the outrage about Nazi Germany in the early 40's" - Defendant
"Have you heard of WWII?" - Judge

I'm not talking about apartheid South Africa, I'm talking about "hell on earth for lgbt" current South Africa. And that South Africa hosted the world cup, the biggest sport event in the world by far.


So, you analogy doesn't really work. To work, it would have to go something like this"

"Your honour, where was the outrage about Nazi Germany" - Defendant
"Have you heard of Marshall's Plan?" - Judge

[Ironside]

I'm not talking about apartheid South Africa, I'm talking about "hell on earth for lgbt" current South Africa. And that South Africa hosted the world cup, the biggest sport event in the world by far.

Has South Africa done any legal changes on the matter recently? Or any clearly influential inofficial changes?

Changes creates reactions, that's the way things works. If you actually want to see protests in Africa on worsening the situation for lgbt, see Uganda.

What you're saying is that if you're aren't outspoken about a nasty status quo in any place of the world, you can't complain about a country making changes for the worse, as long as they're not as nasty. That's a common and incredibly paralysing and vile argument.

To follow that logic. Even while bombed, Serbia wasn't the worst place on earth. Unless the Serbian people did a particulary complaining about those places, they had no right to complain about getting bombed.

Fine, fine to correct it, it would be any actual protester in another country that hasn't that right.

[Sarmatian]

Has South Africa done any legal changes on the matter recently? Or any clearly influential inofficial changes?

Changes creates reactions, that's the way things works. If you actually want to see protests in Africa on worsening the situation for lgbt, see Uganda.

What you're saying is that if you're aren't outspoken about a nasty status quo in any place of the world, you can't complain about a country making changes for the worse, as long as they're not as nasty. That's a common and incredibly paralysing and vile argument.

To follow that logic. Even while bombed, Serbia wasn't the worst place on earth. Unless the Serbian people did a particulary complaining about those places, they had no right to complain about getting bombed.

Fine, fine to correct it, it would be any actual protester in another country that hasn't that right.

I'm not arguing against discussion of lgbt rights in Russia, but the thread's about whether international sport events in Russia should be boycotted because of it.

The elephant in the room that everybody is trying to ignore is South Africa which hosted a world cup a few years ago. Nobody called for boycot, and mainstream media largely ignored the issue.
Just because a situation is worsening in Russia, it's still light years ahead of South Africa.

it's the double standards that bother me, simple as that.

[Husar]

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/08/08...russia-so-far/

This link was posted here earlier and had a little surprise for me. I was surprised to read that the video in point 4 is just about one gay guy, the picture made me think otherwise. It reminded me of Lemur's thread of anti-gays who turn out to be gay after all.
I mean, it looks hilarious and I honestly thought the "sailor guys" (paratroopers, I know) were the gay ones there.

The South African problems were discussed here in the media throughout the World Cup btw. as are the Russian ones.
So in a way these events shine a brighter light onto the problems these countries have than is done usually. That is, even if the problems aren't the focus of media attention next to the sports coverage, they're still discussed far more than they usually are. And just the notion of maybe boycotting it, even if there is no boycott, intensifies the discussion of the problems.

Alternatively we could try to invade Russia and force them to accept gays, a historically proven method.

[Sarmatian]

It should be easier. You wouldn't have to transfer panzers south to take Kiev, you could save them all for one final push on Moskau :). Stalingrad doesn't exist anymore. Leningrad also. Actually, it would walk in the park.