Economic Victory Conditions

[Bramborough]

Yep, it's 80K net income, i.e., after expenditures. And yes it does seem a bit daunting.

I don't think it's as hard as it sounds, though. By the time you meet the 90-settlement requirement, your empire will be amply sufficient to net 80K.

The key will be expanding in such a way that you occupy (at least with MAs or clients) the required provinces, and have one source of all the required resources (which have to be in your own territory; MA or client controlled resources don't count). Initially this may sound easy, but lead and silk are pretty scarce and way out on the fringes (at least from Rome's perspective).

It can also be maddeningly difficult to get the last couple of trade partners you need. Small factions get bumped off...or access to their capital cut...all the time. Seems like every time I gain a trade partner, I lose one somewhere else because they get conquered or lose their port.

All in all, the strategic locations & resources plus need for 20 trade agreements, make this really of a "economic/diplomatic" victory, rather than just purely economic.

In any case, once you've got the settlement, territory, trade partner, and resource requirements completed, meeting the 80K requirement can be done in a bit of a gimmicky way. Disestablish some of your armies, and cut the remainder to about half-size...you need to keep a mere 70 units, which is only 3.5 full stacks. This will massively reduce your upkeep, and free up at least 10K, maybe as much as 15K. Then just zoom your taxes up to Very High. Your public order will go bananas, but doesn't really matter, it's just one turn, and bingo, you win.

[Sp4]

If I set my taxes all the way to the max, I can get 60k/turn and that's with all available armies and all but 4 of them have the best quality I can get from my barracks and I just barely control half the map, maybe 17 or 18 provinces? I'm not even sure if the game has 90 provinces. I guess you mean settlements. It doesn't seem like such a hard to reach goal. Knowing myself, I am going to accidentally win on some condition I didn't want to win on.

[easytarget]

Right, meant 90 settlements.

Ok, thanks guys, so it is 80k.

That's alright, it can be done. I'll just conquer the number of settlements needed, focus on insuring I have the right provinces listed and when I'm set on every other criteria, I'll just disband armies and raise taxes to get to the number. I think as I control more provinces headed towards the 90 settlement number this won't prove a problem. I'm at 20k a a turn right now and have 2/3 of the number of settlements needed yet to conquered.

I'm 8 of 9 on resources, I've not paid attention to which one I'm missing, hope I pick that up by dumb luck along the way. ;)

And you're right, getting the requsite number of trade partners can be maddeningly stupid when you have a lot of money because they make demands for payment to cement the deal that are just completely dumb and really something CA needs to fix (there should NEVER be a request by a faction that I could steam roll with one stack asking me for more money to trade with them than I will ever recoup the rest of the campaign - but for needing that trade agreement, I would obliterate out of existence just about every faction in this game for the completely stupid things they request).

[Sp4]

*grumble grumble* Yeah I am just going to go and send over this really inconsequential amount of soldiers and take your trade for me.



I wonder what sort of rebellions I had on my hands if my legionaires knew I'd rather spend them than some currency I get every turn

[andrewt]

If I set my taxes all the way to the max, I can get 60k/turn and that's with all available armies and all but 4 of them have the best quality I can get from my barracks and I just barely control half the map, maybe 17 or 18 provinces? I'm not even sure if the game has 90 provinces. I guess you mean settlements. It doesn't seem like such a hard to reach goal. Knowing myself, I am going to accidentally win on some condition I didn't want to win on.

I'm at around 60k/turn with roughly 17-20 provinces in my game as well. I have had taxes at max almost since the beginning and just plan my provinces around the public order penalty. The 20% corruption reduction from being an Empire really helps. There are also enough technologies for a further 60% reduction in corruption. I believe there's also 12% increase in taxes from technologies.

[nearchos]

Im with 120 provinces as Macedon, 9/9 resources, ( i own them all), i make 65K, and with the taxes very high and some dispanding i will reach the 80k, but only 10 factions are trading with me and the best was 15 trade agreements during the campaign.
I cant get a trade agreement since a long time ago, to give you an example, i m offering trade agreement to client states of mine very friently, ofering them over half of my tresury, 800k 900k, 1000k and they reject.
Thats something that needs fixing i think, i mean trade is profitable for both parties there is no logic in this.
Moreover, as the game goes, my trade parteners, even client states and very friently are breaking the trade agreements with me.

[Sp4]

I've only once had the 20 required trade agreements for an economic victory and that was when I was playing a fairly passive campaign as Sparta (a co op campaign actually) in which I secured Hellas and Macedonia for myself and then just made peace with everyone and waited for the incredibly long AI turns to end and building my little empire but that means I wont have the necessary room/space for the economic victory, sooo.. I guess a way you could try is by just subjugating everyone you run into on your conquests and having trade with them. It's probably easier as one of the barbarian factions because they get the whole 'Liberate' option, which makes your diplomatic 'score' with the liberated faction go through the roof, so they'll accept anything that isn't a request to join your confederation.

-E- Actually, I think the liberate option comes up when you defeat someone who has taken a province that originally belonged to someone else and it is that someone else you liberate/reinstate. I tried to do it as the Romans for the Iceni when invading Britain but I don't think I got the option.

In my Gaul campaign, I liberated Massalia a bunch of times after they keep getting run over by Carthage.

[nearchos]

Well, that isnt working for me in single player no matter what i do or what i offer, no one wants to trade and i mean not even factions i have turned in client states, so i have to achive military victory.

[Sp4]

Well, that isnt working for me in single player no matter what i do or what i offer, no one wants to trade and i mean not even factions i have turned in client states, so i have to achive military victory.

Yes, it's kind of funny how you allow a faction to survive on the terms that they now pay you 50 gold a turn in tribute and then they still run around refusing trade with you. You should be able to force trade agreements or something.

[Bramborough]

Im with 120 provinces as Macedon, 9/9 resources, ( i own them all), i make 65K, and with the taxes very high and some dispanding i will reach the 80k, but only 10 factions are trading with me and the best was 15 trade agreements during the campaign.
I cant get a trade agreement since a long time ago, to give you an example, i m offering trade agreement to client states of mine very friently, ofering them over half of my tresury, 800k 900k, 1000k and they reject.
Thats something that needs fixing i think, i mean trade is profitable for both parties there is no logic in this.
Moreover, as the game goes, my trade parteners, even client states and very friently are breaking the trade agreements with me.

One factor I realized late in my last campaign (and after I posted above in this thread): As your empire continues to grow, you're covering more and more of the map...which means less room for everybody else. So factions die off as the game progresses, not just from your own expansion but also from some of the other AI factions who may be doing decently themselves. Plus, there's always a few factions you can't trade with even if they'd agree, because of geographic blockage. Somewhere around 110 or 120 settlements, I reached a point where I would have had to get a trade agreement with every remaining geographically-accessible faction. Some of these were at war and probably going to die soon, others that just plain hated my guts and would've taken forever to get their diplo status up to a feasible range. At that point I realized that the "20 trade agreement" requirement is probably the hardest eco-victory condition by far.

If you're at 120 settlements, might want to count through the factions in diplo tab and see if it's even possible to get 20 trade agreements.

[Sp4]

I'm at 80 settlements and there aren't even 20 factions anymore >_>

[andrewt]

I pretty much knew that the 20 trade agreement requirement would be the hardest the moment I saw it, knowing how diplomacy in previous CA titles worked. Carthage's is even worse because it requires 25.

[easytarget]

I'm at 80 settlements and there aren't even 20 factions anymore >_>

Yeah, shocker, another element of the game not well thought out. Just like no short campaign option.

Who on earth requires you to pick up 90 settlements on an economic victory? That's supposed to be the turtler option, not the war monger.

[nearchos]

One factor I realized late in my last campaign (and after I posted above in this thread): As your empire continues to grow, you're covering more and more of the map...which means less room for everybody else. So factions die off as the game progresses, not just from your own expansion but also from some of the other AI factions who may be doing decently themselves. Plus, there's always a few factions you can't trade with even if they'd agree, because of geographic blockage. Somewhere around 110 or 120 settlements, I reached a point where I would have had to get a trade agreement with every remaining geographically-accessible faction. Some of these were at war and probably going to die soon, others that just plain hated my guts and would've taken forever to get their diplo status up to a feasible range. At that point I realized that the "20 trade agreement" requirement is probably the hardest eco-victory condition by far.

If you're at 120 settlements, might want to count through the factions in diplo tab and see if it's even possible to get 20 trade agreements.

Yes, that is correct, probably there arent enough factions around to get the 20 trade agreements but the problem i want to point is that its almost imposible to get a trade agreement, even with factions very friendly and giving them a lot of money.
Now after last night turns im with 128 provinces and only 2 trade agreements, because from the 10 i had, 8 of them broke them and 3 of them were client states.
So i think that this needs fixing among with other things, for a more resonable AI in diplomacy, wich to be honest, in comparison with the previous TW titles where there wasnt actualy any, performs better.
At least now a non agresion pact, or a client state has a meaning to some point.

[Quillan]

and have one source of all the required resources (which have to be in your own territory; MA or client controlled resources don't count). Initially this may sound easy, but lead and silk are pretty scarce and way out on the fringes (at least from Rome's perspective).

Trade sources DO count; I can attest from personal experience. However, those sources are always at risk. In my first game as Rome, Edessa was in the hands of Cappadocia, with whom I was a military ally and trading partner. Under the tab for economic victory, it showed that I had 9/9 unique resources. However, on the turn where I cranked my tax rate up to "win" the game by going over 80k net income (was about 60k at the time), Cappadocia lost the region to Media Atropane. I had to declare war on them and seize the region to win.