Pre Marian troops

[Veho Nex]

Hastati and Principes are pretty poop, yes. Get legionaires as soon as you leave Italy ^^

They werent poop before. I used to be able to do the double charge and rout any troops without fail. They are just weaklings now. I can't find anything in the patch notes that explains why they should be so freaking bad compared to barbarian peasants.

[Sp4]

They werent poop before. I used to be able to do the double charge and rout any troops without fail. They are just weaklings now. I can't find anything in the patch notes that explains why they should be so freaking bad compared to barbarian peasants.

Morale changes and fights lasting longer.

[Myth]

They had too high a kill rate and because their inherent defence is high compared to Carthagenian/Etruscan troops they rocked. Even pre-patch you'd get diced by elite Spartans, Athenians or Macedonians, and Jupiter help you if the Gauls ever got to their top units and you were still using Hastati.

The new mechanic makes it so when a unit has a steady trend of losing at some point there is a breaking line and casualties start flying up, which makes the unit rout. It's historically accurate - pitched battles didn't end up with last man standing slaughters. When there was an avenue for retreat, the men would do so at about 25%-30% casualties given. People don't want to die.

[Veho Nex]

But when did they knock it down the the point where barbarian shortswords and spearmen become stronger than gold vetted bronze armored units? Im only on turn 40~ theres no way I should be that outclassed already

[Sp4]

But when did they knock it down the the point where barbarian shortswords and spearmen become stronger than gold vetted bronze armored units? Im only on turn 40~ theres no way I should be that outclassed already

Compare the stats of the two units. I don't think short swords are as bad as you are trying to make them look. Hastati on the other hand do really look pretty weak with their nonexistant armour and all ^^

[phred]

I've started some battles where the adviser tells me "the men are wavering" at the start of the battle.
And I mean really at the start of the battle, right after I press the "Start Battle" button (or whatever it's called).
I haven't researched Legionnaires yet, but perhaps I should.

[Sp4]

That can happen if you deploy your men really far away from your general. Some very cheap units can't cope with that too well ^^