Britain without coal

[Noncommunist]

They would have still enjoyed their naval supremacy and the boons of being an island nation. However, once armoured steam ships like Ironclads began to take over as THE naval warfare units and the ships of the line are only viable for long range operations they would have to be a lot more careful around their european neighbours who could come down crashing across the canal with superior fleets.

The railways were also a major part of the industrialization process as they revolutionized the way goods and services were transported across land. Without access to cheap coal England's rail system would be set back considerably. You can see how that turned out for royal Russia (which had coal but had much larger swathes of land to cover with its rail system) - they had massive problems with infrastructure and railways in particular and therefore could not be as effective in industrializing.

If Britain hadn't had coal, do you think the other powers of Europe would have known to begin using their coal reserves to eventually power Ironclads?

[Conradus]

If Britain hadn't had coal, do you think the other powers of Europe would have known to begin using their coal reserves to eventually power Ironclads?

Sure, why not? It's not that none else would ever have thought of using that black stuff for power.

[Myth]

If Britain hadn't had coal, do you think the other powers of Europe would have known to begin using their coal reserves to eventually power Ironclads?

Seeing as how many discoveries happened simultaneously or within the span of a year from each other, I'd say no particular one is truly exclusive, except for maybe the theory of relativity. So yeah, at some point they would have.

Also, from Wikipedia:

In the 18th and early 19th centuries fleets had relied on two types of major warship, the ship of the line and the frigate. The first major change to these types was the introduction of steam power for propulsion. While paddle steamer warships had been used from the 1830s onwards, steam propulsion only became suitable for major warships after the adoption of the screw propeller in the 1840s.

Steam-powered screw frigates were built in the mid-1840s, and at the end of the decade the French Navy introduced steam power to its line of battle. The desire for change came from the ambition of Napoleon III to gain greater influence in Europe, which required a challenge to the British at sea.

The steam propeller is not spaceflight. Someone would have figured it out. And even though the Royal Navy was working on an armoured frigate of some sort, it was the French who actually introduced the first ironclad warship.

[Brandy Blue]

And even though the Royal Navy was working on an armoured frigate of some sort, it was the French who actually introduced the first ironclad warship.

Or possibly the Koreans did, though the "Turtle ship" bears little resemblance to a Western style ironclad, so I don't know if you want to count it or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_ship

[El Barto]

I wouldn't as those were not even present in the Western mindset, I don't recall the Koreans or other East Asians ever using the Turtle Ships against European fleets.

[Noncommunist]

Seeing as how many discoveries happened simultaneously or within the span of a year from each other, I'd say no particular one is truly exclusive, except for maybe the theory of relativity. So yeah, at some point they would have.

Also, from Wikipedia:

In the 18th and early 19th centuries fleets had relied on two types of major warship, the ship of the line and the frigate. The first major change to these types was the introduction of steam power for propulsion. While paddle steamer warships had been used from the 1830s onwards, steam propulsion only became suitable for major warships after the adoption of the screw propeller in the 1840s.

Steam-powered screw frigates were built in the mid-1840s, and at the end of the decade the French Navy introduced steam power to its line of battle. The desire for change came from the ambition of Napoleon III to gain greater influence in Europe, which required a challenge to the British at sea.

The steam propeller is not spaceflight. Someone would have figured it out. And even though the Royal Navy was working on an armoured frigate of some sort, it was the French who actually introduced the first ironclad warship.

Which continental powers do you think would have lead the way in the absence of Britain and how do you think they might have shifted the balance of power in Europe?

[El Barto]

Germany and France, mostly. Austria didn't have that much access to the sea except some tiny outlets to the Adriatic and the Russians were busy fighting land wars.

[Myth]

Yep. Germany and France, with France becoming the dominant colonial power and Germany focusing heavily on industrialization and rail development.

[El Barto]

Well, we might as well go on a complete alternate history timeline… would France have used the extra manpower from its African and American colonies to counter the increasing might of the Prussian armies?

[Noncommunist]

Yep. Germany and France, with France becoming the dominant colonial power and Germany focusing heavily on industrialization and rail development.

Given that Belgium was the second power to industrialize, do you think they would have been able to get a serious head start on Germany or France? Or maybe even try to prevent Germany from forming?

[Conradus]

Given that Belgium was the second power to industrialize, do you think they would have been able to get a serious head start on Germany or France? Or maybe even try to prevent Germany from forming?

Not very likely, and I say this as a Belgian.

Our first two Kings were quite belligerent, but the government was never ready to follow their ideas. Leopold II then went on a spree in the Congo, without any real backing from Belgium.

So we would've industrialized and perhaps become the most industrialized nation of Europe for a while, but we'd be no threat to any other nations. Appeasement was a large part of our international politics. (Our Kings were attached to both the English, German and French monarchies).

In any case, militarily we'd never be a match for France or Germany or even Prussia for that matter.

[Myth]

Double post.