Mandela - Sinner or Saint

[PanzerJaeger]

RIP to all of Nelson Mandela's many innocent victims.

- split from RIP Mandela thread.

[Montmorency]

You're right - prepare the gallows for Kissinger.

[Kadagar_AV]

Panzer, I think you might want to explain your thoughts more elaborately, no?

[PanzerJaeger]

No. This is an RIP thread, meaning empty platitudes are the only acceptable response. Spend about five minutes on Google and you'll be able to figure it out.

[Rhyfelwyr]

In the hope this is inkeeping with an RIP thread - Mandela did take part of a lot of activities that are repugnant, and in most circumstances would be wholeheartedly condemned by Western media/society. I think he was flawed and the nature of the ANC's origins always meant it was never going to be well suited to good governance.

But at the same time, he was a product of Apartheid South Africa. The white establishment reaped what they sowed - they wanted the benefits of cheap black labour, traditional black lands - and the resultant oppression that comes with subjugating a population in that way. Those were the conditions that created Mandela and his revolution - the good and the bad.

[Gregoshi]

This is an RIP thread, meaning empty platitudes are the only acceptable response.

And knowing this, you still could not withhold your comments for another few days until his funeral.

The thread at this point in time is for those who wish to pay their respects to Nelson Mandela. After his funeral service, you are all free to discuss the good and/or the ill of the man's life.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

And knowing this, you still could not withhold your comments for another few days until his funeral.

The thread at this point in time is for those who wish to pay their respects to Nelson Mandela. After his funeral service, you are all free to discuss the good and/or the ill of the man's life.

I have always enjoyed this backroom tradition.

[ICantSpellDawg]

And knowing this, you still could not withhold your comments for another few days until his funeral.

The thread at this point in time is for those who wish to pay their respects to Nelson Mandela. After his funeral service, you are all free to discuss the good and/or the ill of the man's life.

Bah to censorship. He's not being offended. Mandela always seemed OK, especially when he got older and realized that Marxism was a joke. People live and then they die and this incessant public circle jerk is getting old.

What I enjoy about these high profile deaths is that they get people to pull their heads out and read about historical occurrences for five seconds, or long enough to spray sycophantic platitudes all over everyone.

RIP

[PanzerJaeger]

RIP Nelson Mandela

Really? Your edit changed the intent of my post. I corrected it.

[Beskar]

Really? Your edit changed the intent of my post. I corrected it.

It was changed to a simple acknowledgement of a mans death, in keeping with tradition you mentioned yourself. It wasn't intended to mistake you for an anti-apartheid supporter.

[PanzerJaeger]

It wasn't intended to mistake you for an anti-apartheid supporter.

My stance on apartheid is not the issue (NSFW Link).

[a completely inoffensive name]

Personally I am interested in what Panzer has to say about the matter. But I can wait 5 or so days for it.

[HoreTore]

In the hope this is inkeeping with an RIP thread - Mandela did take part of a lot of activities that are repugnant, and in most circumstances would be wholeheartedly condemned by Western media/society. I think he was flawed and the nature of the ANC's origins always meant it was never going to be well suited to good governance.

But at the same time, he was a product of Apartheid South Africa. The white establishment reaped what they sowed - they wanted the benefits of cheap black labour, traditional black lands - and the resultant oppression that comes with subjugating a population in that way. Those were the conditions that created Mandela and his revolution - the good and the bad.

What Mandela's racist opposition(like PJ) somehow doesn't seem to get, is that we hail Mandela because he renounced his previous violence. The man who left Robben Island was a very different man than the one who went in, and it is that man we admire.

[HoreTore]

My stance on apartheid is not the issue.

This is like linking to Hitler for evidence of Jewish crimes.

[Fragony]

What you don't remember because you never saw it http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fcOXqFQw2hc

[Empire*Of*Media]

May his Soul In Peace!
indeed a Great man! i cant imagine myself be in a Damn brutal BRITISH prison for 27 years, and then, after all suffers and tortures and insults those damn british imperialists did to him, for goddamn 27 years, and he forgive them all! he even did not insult his torturers!! what a man can be such a great except GANDHI,Nelson Mandela, Mother Teresa!!

its injustice such this people die but someone like Eisenhower Families, Roosevelt Families, Kissinger, Bush family and such these devils are rich and living!
ah......goddamn this world!

You're right - prepare the gallows for Kissinger.

Exactly!


Hey BRENNUS dont you have anything to offense & attack & Insult this great man too?!!

[HoreTore]

What you don't remember because you never saw it http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fcOXqFQw2hc

Get over yourself Frags, we all know about it.

We also know the context(something it doesn't look like you do), which allows us to keep admiring Mandela

[Fragony]

Get over yourself Frags, we all know about it.

We also know the context(something it doesn't look like you do), which allows us to keep admiring Mandela

And what is it that you know exactly? Nope, 'you' don't know all about it because quality media ignores it. Doesn't suit the worldview they like to jerk of on. Not being 100% OK is instant excommunication in the leftist church. What's the counter, 40.000 whites butchered by now?

Zimbabwe 2.0

[HoreTore]

And what is it that you know exactly? Nope, 'you' don't know all about it because quality media ignores it. Doesn't suit the worldview they like to jerk of on. Not being 100% OK is instant excommunication in the leftist church. What's the counter, 40.000 whites butchered by now?

Zimbabwe 2.0

I would suggest keeping your uninformed drivel to a non-RIP thread.

[Visor]

I'm seconding Horetore here, this isn't the thread for that. Make one tomorrow if you want.

[Fragony]

I would suggest keeping your uninformed drivel to a non-RIP thread.

True that, apoligies

[Lemur]

A right-winger at NRO gets it right:

"“Like many other anti-Communists and Cold Warriors, I feared that releasing Nelson Mandela from jail, especially amid the collapse of South Africa’s apartheid government, would create a Cuba on the Cape of Good Hope at best and an African Cambodia at worst […] Far, far, far from any of that, Nelson Mandela turned out to be one of the 20th Century’s great moral leaders, right up there with Mahatma Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. […] So, I was dead wrong about Nelson Mandela, a great man and fine example to others, not least the current occupant of the White House. After 95 momentous years on Earth, may Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela rest in peace.” — Deroy Murdock

[Strike For The South]

What the hell. This isn't about Rugby

[Brenus]

“Hey BRENNUS dont you have anything to offense & attack & Insult this great man too?!!” Ho? You are back? You still have to make effort: Brenus, 1 n, Brennus, 2 n, is another person. But, as usual, do not bother with reality.

The fact you seem to miss (well, one of the numerous facts you ignore should I say) is I insult nobody whereas you don’t hesitate. You are a fascist anti-Semitic with Stalinist inclination, or a Stalinist anti-Semitic fascist, so I can’t blame you to use the tactic linked with you obedience.

Then, I can’t offend dead people by definition. Dead people don’t care. I don’t believe in Legends but I recognised Mandela travel and struggle. It is easy to blame a bomb attack on someone when you are not the one daily humiliated, and that one point.

As Gandhi is concerned, he deserves nothing than scorn and shame: he had the sexuality we all know, he was a willing and active political tool of the Indian Bourgeoisie who wanted Independence but without risking a “soviet” revolution in India, and he had no political success in whatsoever fields (except breaking strikes when they were in a momentum to become successful), even at his pick (1934). He told the German Jews to obey Hitler, and the result of his Peaceful Protest was clear when they ended in Auschwitz, Treblinka or Majdenek (or others camps), killing you deny.

Contrary to Gandhi going in hunger strike to force Nehru to go to war against the Muslim (after imposing the Sun Wheel on the Indian Flag, clearly indicating that the Muslim were not real India Citizens), Mandela went for a process of peace and reconciliation. Not perfect, didn’t work everywhere, but it didn’t finish in a blood bath as it was feared.
So RIP Mandela, cross the seas and find rest.

[Empire*Of*Media]

You are a fascist anti-Semitic with Stalinist inclination, or a Stalinist anti-Semitic fascist WOW!!!----what STALINIST?!! so for all, im a dangerous person now!! haha! i didnt know that! so take care or i will bomb your house or cut your throat!

doesnt matter what u say, because you want to wash your guilty & traces of lies of yours with abuse & accusals! all you Imperialists are like each other! all the world is bad and should be offensed but NOT YOURS! you are GOD! maybe upper than something like GOD!! no one should criticize you or he is CONSPIRACY THEORIST, Fascist ,Dictator ,liar and anything to cover your crimes!

but we suppose your right for now, so then you are an Imperialist that supports sucking innocent peoples and deplete their resources ONLY for yours in poor countries only for your Imperialistic wishes and your goddamn benefits!!
if anti Imperialistic and anti 1% controlling the world, and be a freedom fighter and liberal, is anti semitic and ignorance, then im them all! and i praise and i honor it!

the gandhi matter i spoke alot, and many denied your lies, and he will not be an evil by one night of your hate & lies! so i will not go on on that.

the little kind you pretend to Mandela, is for that no one COULD say anything against him, and if such a thread was not posted, then you would post a thread like "Mandela, -snip- that stopped and destroyed imperialistic colonization of south africa"!!

if it would not be Mandela or martin Luther king and revolts of black people, you still would be racist like 200 years UK & US has been and had black slaves like your beloved George Washington and British empire! no difference between Roman Empire in Wild ages with you so called democrat and modern!
so please dont say the holy name of Mandela, for your tongue has the dirt of lies and hate and blood of innocent people!

after all, your in US army, i should not expect better that you

plus, all the thing i said or the lack of discuss, is only because i have forgotten English much, and i cant write without Dictionary! so dont think i cant defend against u in reality!!

sorry Mandela, for those that once tortured you and insulted & mocked you, now misuse your Great name for their own good and purposes!

[Pannonian]

May his Soul In Peace!
indeed a Great man! i cant imagine myself be in a Damn brutal BRITISH prison for 27 years, and then, after all suffers and tortures and insults those damn british imperialists did to him, for goddamn 27 years, and he forgive them all! he even did not insult his torturers!! what a man can be such a great except GANDHI,Nelson Mandela, Mother Teresa!!

Wow, we British were to blame again, this time for Mandela's imprisonment. Is there no end to our iniquities?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

You are a fascist anti-Semitic with Stalinist inclination, or a Stalinist anti-Semitic fascist WOW!!!----what STALINIST?!! so for all, im a dangerous person now!! haha! i didnt know that! so take care or i will bomb your house or cut your throat!

doesnt matter what u say, because you want to wash your guilty & traces of lies of yours with abuse & accusals! all you Imperialists are like each other! all the world is bad and should be offensed but NOT YOURS! you are GOD! maybe upper than something like GOD!! no one should criticize you or he is CONSPIRACY THEORIST, Fascist ,Dictator ,liar and anything to cover your crimes!

but we suppose your right for now, so then you are an Imperialist that supports sucking innocent peoples and deplete their resources ONLY for yours in poor countries only for your Imperialistic wishes and your goddamn benefits!!
if anti Imperialistic and anti 1% controlling the world, and be a freedom fighter and liberal, is anti semitic and ignorance, then im them all! and i praise and i honor it!

the gandhi matter i spoke alot, and many denied your lies, and he will not be an evil by one night of your hate & lies! so i will not go on on that.

the little kind you pretend to Mandela, is for that no one COULD say anything against him, and if such a thread was not posted, then you would post a thread like "Mandela, a nigger bastard that stopped and destroyed imperialistic colonization of south africa"!!

if it would not be Mandela or martin Luther king and revolts of black people, you still would be racist like 200 years UK & US has been and had black slaves like your beloved George Washington and British empire! no difference between Roman Empire in Wild ages with you so called democrat and modern!
so please dont say the holy name of Mandela, for your tongue has the dirt of lies and hate and blood of innocent people!

after all, your in US army, i should not expect better that you

plus, all the thing i said or the lack of discuss, is only because i have forgotten English much, and i cant write without Dictionary! so dont think i cant defend against u in reality!!

sorry Mandela, for those that once tortured you and insulted & mocked you, now misuse your Great name for their own good and purposes!

You realise Boers are Dutch, right?

Afrikaans is a dialect of Dutch, not English. No way off there.

Beyond that - Mandela realised, as you do not, that a person should not be judged by the colour of his skin, and you should not cling pointlessly to the past for the purpose of hating someone.

If your skin is dark, and mine is pale, and you live somewhere hot and dry, and I live somewhere cold and wet, and I cannot own land in my own country that cannot be taken away from me because I have a Queen, and you can because you have a Constitution.

What have I ever done to you, other than be born in a different place to different parents?

[Pannonian]

You realise Boers are Dutch, right?

Afrikaans is a dialect of Dutch, not English. No way off there.

Beyond that - Mandela realised, as you do not, that a person should not be judged by the colour of his skin, and you should not cling pointlessly to the past for the purpose of hating someone.

Mandela also realised that friends are to be judged on their actions. Hence he was actually rather fond of certain sections of the British people, who had backed him through decades of imprisonment. But apparently EasternKurdikus knows better than Mandela did, because Britain is to blame for everything.

Hint to EasternKurdikus: look up cricket. It's a rather significant part of the Mandela story.

[Empire*Of*Media]

Mandela also realised that friends are to be judged on their actions. Hence he was actually rather fond of certain sections of the British people, who had backed him through decades of imprisonment. But apparently EasternKurdikus knows better than Mandela did, because Britain is to blame for everything.

Hint to EasternKurdikus: look up cricket. It's a rather significant part of the Mandela story.

well thanks, no friend i dont mean BRITISH PEOPLE! i meant BRITISH EMPIRE! no government is REAL representative of its country (except like sweden & switzerland)!

i know its the british PEOPLE in the government, but power is different, yes i alwayse hate and criticize british imperialism, not me, anyone who really suffered their cruelty & injustice!

so CHEERS mate, i have no hate on British or American PEOPLE !
i just expect them more open minded and think more & deeply....

[Kadagar_AV]

well thanks, no friend i dont mean BRITISH PEOPLE! i meant BRITISH EMPIRE! no government is REAL representative of its country (except like sweden & switzerland)!

i know its the british PEOPLE in the government, but power is different, yes i alwayse hate and criticize british imperialism, not me, anyone who really suffered their cruelty & injustice!

so CHEERS mate, i have no hate on British or American PEOPLE !
i just expect them more open minded and think more & deeply....

That's how Sweden works? HURRY, you must tell the people and politicians, election is only a year away!!