The BDS movement and the association of anti-Zionism and antisemitism

[Fragony]

I don't know that movement. But how is the fixation in Israel not anti-semitism, do the same people who get all worked up about Israel get worked up about other problematic parts of the world, nope, they don't. If you do a process of elimination of all factors, how can you not come to the conclusion that it's absolutily antisemitism, just a less obvious one because they can now blame a state. What else could make Israel so special for them?

'And don’t tell me this is merely about Zionism. The ruse is transparent. Israel is the world’s only Jewish state. To apply to the state of the Jews a double standard that you apply to none other, to judge one people in a way you judge no other, to single out that one people for condemnation and isolation — is to engage in a gross act of discrimination.

And discrimination against Jews has a name. It’s called anti-Semitism.'

I agree with him. Jews should still watch their back in ffing 2014 .The EU couldn't wait to give the muslim brotherhood free money, and you know what they stand for. The EU gives free money to the Hamas-government, and you know what they stand for.

Israel got one big boa-constrictor around it's neck, it just isn't allowed that they got their own hub there.

[Ironside]

I don't know that movement. But how is the fixation in Israel not anti-semitism, do the same people who get all worked up about Israel get worked up about other problematic parts of the world, nope, they don't. If you do a process of elimination of all factors, how can you not come to the conclusion that it's absolutily antisemitism, just a less obvious one because they can now blame a state. What else could make Israel so special for them?

The left loves an underdog and supported Israel when they were one.
Any states that are western or westernish are hold to a higher standard.
Any democracy is hold to a higher standard.
Keeping a situation similar for a very long time will create a larger but more low burning activivists. If you burnt out on the cause and it's still there 10 years later, you can still join it, instead of finding a new cause.

So give me a western -ish democracy that you can easily conjure up as an active bully. Israeli tanks vs stone throwing Palestinian children is a very biased picture, but it isn't wrong. South Africa was pariah in many countries during the apartheid.

Let me put it this way. The US gets plenty of blame by Europeans and this shift happened decades (the Vietnam war) after the US got the become the global and cultural superpower it is today. Is this because of rascism?
Or is it because the US is dominating and at the same time doesn't fullfill some high horses ideals that's placed upon them?

Get noted. Appear to be able to fullfill some ideals. Fail at those ideals. Enjoy the rage.

[Husar]

I don't know that movement. But how is the fixation in Israel not anti-semitism, do the same people who get all worked up about Israel get worked up about other problematic parts of the world, nope, they don't.

How do you know all these things? Can you show me your data about people who dislike Israel and what else they get worked up over or are you just pulling these "facts" out of your body cavities?

[Fragony]

How do you know all these things? Can you show me your data about people who dislike Israel and what else they get worked up over or are you just pulling these "facts" out of your body cavities?

Well the fact is simply that MSN and leftist self-congratulaters don't give a crap when it's not Israel. Absolute silence. When it's Israel though there isn't enough chocolate in the world to counter their hormonal spikes.

'Any states that are western or westernish are hold to a higher standard.'

That could at least be an explanation, but I am not buying it. Antisemitism is very much alive in Europe but it found a safer output to channel it.

[Husar]

Well the fact is simply that MSN and leftist self-congratulaters don't give a crap when it's not Israel. Absolute silence. When it's Israel though there isn't enough chocolate in the world to counter their hormonal spikes.

'Any states that are western or westernish are hold to a higher standard.'

That could at least be an explanation, but I am not buying it. Antisemitism is very much alive in Europe but it found a safer output to channel it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

"2 x 3 equals 4
Widdewiddewitt*, add 3 and you get 9!
I'm making my world
Widdewidde just the way I like it .... "

Fits the attitude of the antagonists in these conflicts as well, everybody has an excuse not to give an inch and for some not giving an inch means taking inches every day. I've quite frankly stopped caring for the most part. I'm sure there are some reasonable people but as usual they get drowned out by the shouting of the unreasonables, whatever the ratio between the groups may be.

I'm not sure what boycotting universities is supposed to achieve but being opposed to Israel's politics is not necessarily anti-semitism either way.

[Fragony]

I'm not sure what boycotting universities is supposed to achieve but being opposed to Israel's politics is not necessarily anti-semitism either way.

But only caring about Israel makes it very likely.

My personal theory that I can't back up and you are allowed to mock me. I think that the real reason is that Israel has succes, it has universities that rank among the best in the world, innovative industry, compatitive economy. That's got to be a bit hard to explain when you are ideologically infused with the idea, or rather truth that all cultures are equal. The palestianes get more aid than any 'country' in the world and it's a mess. So, lefties simply can't get to terms with being wrong.

Fire away

[Pannonian]

I'm not sure what boycotting universities is supposed to achieve but being opposed to Israel's politics is not necessarily anti-semitism either way.

I'm as exasperated by British Islamists as I am puzzled by Israel's influence in the US. I guess this makes me an anti-semite on both sides of the Israel-Palestine divide.

[Husar]

But only caring about Israel makes it very likely.

My personal theory that I can't back up and you are allowed to mock me. I think that the real reason is that Israel has succes, it has universities that rank among the best in the world, innovative industry, compatitive economy. That's got to be a bit hard to explain when you are ideologically infused with the idea, or rather truth that all cultures are equal. The palestianes get more aid than any 'country' in the world and it's a mess. So, lefties simply can't get to terms with being wrong.

Fire away

There are people who are as unreasonable as you say but there is no reason to devote 90% of your posts to a tiny weirdo minority that has barely any impact and treat them as though they dictate all politics in the west. Doing that is unreasonable as well, it's like an unhealthy fixation.

I'm as exasperated by British Islamists as I am puzzled by Israel's influence in the US. I guess this makes me an anti-semite on both sides of the Israel-Palestine divide.

It's a fact that Israel keeps taking land that Palestinians occupy and I haven't seen any arguments as to why that would be okay to do. The only "counter argument" is usually a distraction like "but the Palestinians..." which always ends in that two wrongs do not make a right.

If Israel has the right to take land from its neighbors as long as it can by being militarily stronger, then what about Germany occupying some polish and dutch border towns to settle German people there? Would that be okay? The dutch don't even have tanks anymore to oppose us, that will be easy...

Taking that land is not a defense against rocket attacks and suicide bombers either so that's certainly not a justification, they may justify setting up checkpoints and other measures but not land grabs beyond the borders accepted by the UN.

[Pannonian]

It's a fact that Israel keeps taking land that Palestinians occupy and I haven't seen any arguments as to why that would be okay to do. The only "counter argument" is usually a distraction like "but the Palestinians..." which always ends in that two wrongs do not make a right.

If Israel has the right to take land from its neighbors as long as it can by being militarily stronger, then what about Germany occupying some polish and dutch border towns to settle German people there? Would that be okay? The dutch don't even have tanks anymore to oppose us, that will be easy...

Taking that land is not a defense against rocket attacks and suicide bombers either so that's certainly not a justification, they may justify setting up checkpoints and other measures but not land grabs beyond the borders accepted by the UN.

See the argument I summarised above, that IIRC I've seen Frag or someone trot out here as well. "Palestinians" don't exist. The land was split into various states, one of which was Jordan, and so-called "Palestinians" are really Jordanians who have no right to any disputed land because they belong to a foreign state and not a disputed state. And since they don't exist, they don't exist to dispute the land, and thus Israel is merely holding what is her territory by right and without dispute. That's what I mean by 1984 and Communism. Nazism would preach hatred against its enemy. 1984-style Communism refuses to recognise their existence.

[Ironside]

Well the fact is simply that MSN and leftist self-congratulaters don't give a crap when it's not Israel. Absolute silence. When it's Israel though there isn't enough chocolate in the world to counter their hormonal spikes.

'Any states that are western or westernish are hold to a higher standard.'

That could at least be an explanation, but I am not buying it. Antisemitism is very much alive in Europe but it found a safer output to channel it.

Here's a few questions for you.

Does Israel act as it intends to to assimilate parts of the West Bank?
Did Israel commit small scale ethnic cleansing (mostly in the form of forced relocation) in the parts of the occupied territories that seems to be intended for assimilation? Or to rephrase it, does it live any Palestinians in the Jewish settlements?
Are the Palestinians living under occupied conditions?
Are the Palestinians the underdogs in the conflict?
Can you name an identical situation? Tibet is close, but that's forced cultural assimilation and creating a divisive society by importing Han Chinese in the upper echelons. It's also communistic China doing it and starting it during the cold war. So it's a dictorship and it started in a time it was hard to get traction.

Are the US held to a different standard than China?
Are the US getting more flak than China?
In a conflict that forces alliances, would Europe ally with the US or China?
Why did the left stop liking the US?
Why did the left stop being ok with Israel? (Hint. It started to rapidly decline in 1967).

And I'm trying to figure out how exactly the Left should've picked it up according to you.
By liking the muslims and absorbing jewish hate from there? The multicultural blinders is younger than that. Those blinders also fits "always support the underdogs" and "all cultures are equal and should all be cheerished" much better.
Hidden neo-nazis? They're good at hiding, since extreme left vs extreme right is the most common political violence. They hate eachother.
Ideological reasons? No. There's plenty of leftie ideological reasons to dislike the Israeli policy towards the Palestinians though.
Started with it? No, otherwise the left would've never liked Israel in any form.
Has there been occations and persons that gone far enough to be antisemitic rather than opposing Israeli treatment of the Palestinians? Sure, but it's not antisemitism that was the driving force.

[Fragony]

That's a barrage of questions. Got one back, who is surrounded by genocidal maniacs who have sworn to destroy their state and get shot at at daily bases.

Gonna cherrypick this one out though,

'Can you name an identical situation'

Absolutily, the western sahara of Marocco, supposedly the most modern state in Northern Africa. Also the Kurds come to mind.

I can answer all questions I think, but keep it to a smaller dosis for me please.

Edit, taking this on as well.

'And I'm trying to figure out how exactly the Left should've picked it up according to you.'

Simply because Israel proves that leftist 'intellectuals' are wrong. The society they think they can build is an illusion and the succes Israel has is a slap in the face bringing that home. Leftist intellectuals are used to never have been argued against, so it's simply resentment against the fact that is being completily wrong about some things.

[Ironside]

That's a barrage of questions. Got one back, who is surrounded by genocidal maniacs who have sworn to destroy their state and get shot at at daily bases.

The Palestinians? Or was it a multiple answer question?

They are shot at more than the Israeli, but the surronding genocidal maniacs got less political power.

Anyway, that goes into justification. And I'm saying that a large chunk of the left aren't buying that justification.

Can you name an identical situation'

Absolutily, the western sahara of Marocco, supposedly the most modern state in Northern Africa. Also the Kurds come to mind.

Both are dealing with suppression of a possible new state, rather than annexation (I remembered the right word now). It's less obvious.

I can answer all questions I think, but keep it to a smaller dosis for me please.

Most are Yes or No questions. It's more to provide a context. The two last ones are more complex, but a major part of the answer is that both nations started to look bullyish and imperialistic due to how they acting in war.

Simply because Israel proves that leftist 'intellectuals' are wrong. The society they think they can build is an illusion and the succes Israel has is a slap in the face bringing that home. Leftist intellectuals are used to never have been argued against, so it's simply resentment against the fact that is being completily wrong about some things.

Eh, the society the left wants to build is supposed to be more equal somehow. That's as far as they agree.

And I'm not sure what you mean by the success by Israel. Being successful, while brutal towards your neightbours aren't exactly uncommon in history.

Leftist intellectuals are quite used being argued against. What you might be able to argue is that they're unused to not be on the side of "the good guys", but it's not uncommon that they ignore the bad sides on the part they're cheering on. Or accept it as a part of the struggle. It's a gray vs gray conflict in any way.

Anyway, how it this supposed to make them anti-semitic instead of anti-Israel?

[Fragony]

Leftist intellectuals are quite used being argued against. What you might be able to argue is that they're unused to not be on the side of "the good guys", but it's not uncommon that they ignore the bad sides on the part they're cheering on. Or accept it as a part of the struggle. It's a gray vs gray conflict in any way.

Anyway, how it this supposed to make them anti-semitic instead of anti-Israel?

Because they only care about Israel. In other parts of the world violence and cruelty is taken for granted, uch much worse cruelty and violence I might add. It's no excuse that Israel is held at a higher standard, it's an inconsistancy in the school of thought of equality. Call it a gray area if you want, it won't get you any drinks in the leftist stratosphere and you probably know that if you ever been to a meeting of furious lefties, you won't convince me that a side has already been picked if you not aren't to come with anything better than this. The left is still deeply antisematic, not because of screaming sieg heil like in the old days, but by totally ignoring everything they don't fancy all that much. In short, the left is creepy and dangerous, what they see in others they don't recognise when looking into a mirror.