The BDS movement and the association of anti-Zionism and antisemitism

[Hooahguy]

Israel is still in the West Bank, you are thinking of Gaza. If the US's experience in Iraq and Afghanistan is any indication, iron fists do not work in the long term. Humanitarian aid does. Hearts and minds. At the very least, settlement expansion isnt helping either.

[Fragony]

Ok not fully but the border area's of the West-bank, gaza yeah. It's not a concession that had very much effect on the mindset. And really what's the problem. Israel got attacked and gained some territory in the proces.

For the greater perspective, look at Europe http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=14d_1348362692

Nothing new.

[Beskar]

For the greater perspective, look at Europe http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=14d_1348362692

The video is quite poor in some cases, it has the Great War being conducted ten years too early and with post-WW1 borders in 1914 was the most glaring example. There are quite a number of other different events which are occurring on the wrong dates and such, and a couple of them seemed made up.

Eitherway, that is the past, it is forgetting key features of the Israeli-Palestine conflict such as the Oslo Accords.

[Fragony]

The video is quite poor in some cases, it has the Great War being conducted ten years too early and with post-WW1 borders in 1914 was the most glaring example. There are quite a number of other different events which are occurring on the wrong dates and such, and a couple of them seemed made up.

Eitherway, that is the past, it is forgetting key features of the Israeli-Palestine conflict such as the Oslo Accords.

Yeah there are some errors. In the second worldwar as well. The soundtrack makes up for that though.

[Ironside]

The video is quite poor in some cases, it has the Great War being conducted ten years too early and with post-WW1 borders in 1914 was the most glaring example. There are quite a number of other different events which are occurring on the wrong dates and such, and a couple of them seemed made up.

Eitherway, that is the past, it is forgetting key features of the Israeli-Palestine conflict such as the Oslo Accords.

He's applying a linear timeline with 2 data points on a map that changes non-linear, since the map is done by someone else. 30-40 points would be better.

Anyway, the right to conquest has been massivly looked down to after WWII.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Israel is still in the West Bank, you are thinking of Gaza. If the US's experience in Iraq and Afghanistan is any indication, iron fists do not work in the long term. Humanitarian aid does. Hearts and minds. At the very least, settlement expansion isnt helping either.

Humanitarian aid only works as a stopgap, and only works if the local kleptocrats cannot siphon off the majority for themselves.

In the long run, the "natives" must develop carrying capacity for themselves -- the ability to do things for themselves -- or aid is nought but a sinkhole.

[Hooahguy]

Humanitarian aid only works as a stopgap, and only works if the local kleptocrats cannot siphon off the majority for themselves.

In the long run, the "natives" must develop carrying capacity for themselves -- the ability to do things for themselves -- or aid is nought but a sinkhole.

Aye, just shipping in the stuff to the gates of Gaza wont do anything, as we have seen with Africa (warlords taking most of the aid), Iraq, and Afghanistan, and gods know where else, it needs to be put into the hands of the people directly. If Afghanistan is any indication, the villages that got aid from NATO such as food, electricity, and farming equipment, they were the least likely to fight against NATO, as they didnt need the Taliban to survive and didnt believe them when they said that NATO was evil and such. Now then, even if Hamas keeps touting how Israel is satan, yet Israel is bringing in tons of food, water, supplies, etc, who are the Palestinians more likely to believe? The people providing them food? Or the ones giving them nothing. Right now, Hamas is the one trying to meet the daily needs of the Palestinians, bringing more and more of them onto their side, while Israel keeps shelling and dropping bombs, giving Hamas all the reason to say that Israel only wants to destroy them.

[Strike For The South]

Aye, just shipping in the stuff to the gates of Gaza wont do anything, as we have seen with Africa (warlords taking most of the aid), Iraq, and Afghanistan, and gods know where else, it needs to be put into the hands of the people directly. If Afghanistan is any indication, the villages that got aid from NATO such as food, electricity, and farming equipment, they were the least likely to fight against NATO, as they didnt need the Taliban to survive and didnt believe them when they said that NATO was evil and such. Now then, even if Hamas keeps touting how Israel is satan, yet Israel is bringing in tons of food, water, supplies, etc, who are the Palestinians more likely to believe? The people providing them food? Or the ones giving them nothing. Right now, Hamas is the one trying to meet the daily needs of the Palestinians, bringing more and more of them onto their side, while Israel keeps shelling and dropping bombs, giving Hamas all the reason to say that Israel only wants to destroy them.

This kind of naivete is cute. Wrong, but cute.

[Husar]

This kind of naivete is cute. Wrong, but cute.

So you mean any goodwill shown will be interpreted as a weakness and be exploited to drive the Israelis back into the sea?

[Hooahguy]

This kind of naivete is cute. Wrong, but cute.

Do you have a better idea? The status quo clearly isnt working.

[Fragony]

Do you have a better idea? The status quo clearly isnt working.

How so, there are hardly any attacks anymore because of the wall and the checkpoints. (Egypt also build a wall and gasses tunnels, zero outrage from people with culture and people who have superior morals). The Palestinians allready get the most aid in the world. Does that help? Nope. A wall helps.

[Hooahguy]

How so, there are hardly any attacks anymore because of the wall and the checkpoints.

But they still happen and more importantly, the animosity is still there. Check out this segment from a Louis Theroux documentary. The attacks might have slowed but the hate is very much still there, especially in the younger population. And that will just fester until it bursts again.

The Palestinians allready get the most aid in the world. Does that help? Nope. A wall helps.

Wrong. They are third. Pakistan and Somalia are first and second. According to Global Humanitarian Assistance anyways (though your points still stands, I will agree that just pouring aid into Gaza from outside doesnt necessarily mean it will work, I was specifically discussing sending aid from Israel). And I do agree with you that when it comes for security, the wall certainly helps, but thinking long term it also hurts a lot. It becomes a symbol of oppression for the Palestinians and then they teach their kids that the Israelis are people to hate for putting up this wall. Should they be more angry at the terrorists who bomb buses and caused the wall to be put up? Absolutely, there are no saints in this conflict.

My point is that if you want to end the conflict, a change in the mindset of both sides is in order, and Israel should be the "bigger man" in this conflict and take the first steps towards this goal.