Not in the news

[HoreTore]

Yes it's useful but why does it need to be done by a government agency tasked with regulating the airwaves? Clearly there's potential for abuse.

Why? Where is the clear potential?

Which media outlets have the FCC shut down in the past?

[HoreTore]

that is just his way

Is the language and terms I use too difficult for you to understand? Considering you apparently believe in perpetual motion machines and free energy, that's hardly surprising...

[Fisherking]

Pardon me HoreTore, but it must be that you don’t understand.

What you believe my beliefs to be has no bearing on the topic. It is a distraction. Point up links that have nothing to do with the topic is irrelevant and a distraction, contributing nothing to the subject.

You confuse the topic with your own prejudices. can cloud and obstruct the discussion making it difficult for other to follow. Thus Obfuscation.


As to the FCC, they have at least stopped to examine what they are doing and put it on hold.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014...tor-newsrooms/

But it is probably a source you won’t credit so chose to ignore it if you will.

[HoreTore]

Pardon me HoreTore, but it must be that you don’t understand.

What you believe my beliefs to be has no bearing on the topic. It is a distraction. Point up links that have nothing to do with the topic is irrelevant and a distraction, contributing nothing to the subject.

You confuse the topic with your own prejudices. can cloud and obstruct the discussion making it difficult for other to follow. Thus Obfuscation.


As to the FCC, they have at least stopped to examine what they are doing and put it on hold.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014...tor-newsrooms/

But it is probably a source you won’t credit so chose to ignore it if you will.

Where, exactly, was did I "point up a link that has nothing to do with the topic"...?

And when you have previously stated your admiration of a completely nutjob movie claiming perpetual motion works and free energy exists(Thrive), you can't expect me to just forget about that, sorry.

[Tuuvi]

Why? Where is the clear potential?

Which media outlets have the FCC shut down in the past?

How many people who have been cheated on thought it would never happen because their spouse never cheated on anyone in the past? It's not logical to assume that because someone has never done something they can't or never will. The probability that they will do something such as adultery may be very low depending on the person but it's never an impossibility.

The FCC is a government agency with regulatory authority. They do have the potential to start pressuring news organisations to report the news the way they want them to. As I said before this might not be their intent but their is nothing unreasonable with being concerned.

[HoreTore]

How many people who have been cheated on thought it would never happen because their spouse never cheated on anyone in the past? It's not logical to assume that because someone has never done something they can't or never will. The probability that they will do something such as adultery may be very low depending on the person but it's never an impossibility.

The FCC is a government agency with regulatory authority. They do have the potential to start pressuring news organisations to report the news the way they want them to. As I said before this might not be their intent but their is nothing unreasonable with being concerned.

They already have the ability to shut down media stations. They can already use that ability to force news stations to report the news they want them to report.

But they don't.


I fail to see how a research initiative changes anything when they already have the means necessary to make the media dance to their tune.

[Tuuvi]

They already have the ability to shut down media stations. They can already use that ability to force news stations to report the news they want them to report.

I fail to see how a research initiative changes anything when they already have the means necessary to make the media dance to their tune.

Yea exactly, that is the point. They have the power to shut down media stations. If they want the media to report the news a certain way, don't they need to know how and what the media is reporting? How else are they supposed to know who is and who isn't reporting the news the right way? Did you read the opinion piece?

[Fisherking]

The survey seems like a misguided but honest attempt to do something about the sorry state of our news reporting. It will likely be a shortlived effort.

GC, admittedly the stated premise behind the study sounds like what is needed. But as we have seen time and again the stated goal gets perverted down the line.

Is it really a power you would place in the hands of a partisan government and not expect it to get abused?

Where, exactly, was did I "point up a link that has nothing to do with the topic"...?

And when you have previously stated your admiration of a completely nutjob movie claiming perpetual motion works and free energy exists(Thrive), you can't expect me to just forget about that, sorry.

HoreTore,

Obviously that was a thread you completely misunderstood, and apparently still do. I stated my skepticism from the outset, saying they presented some factual information, and some not, and reached wrong conclusions.

The idea was like examining a complex math problem to see where the individual had worked the steps correctly but made an error in calculations.

We know the answer is wrong but want to find why. You were fixed on there only being a wrong answer and refused to examine the steps.

You still seem fixated on your own misperception. Your mind was closed to such an exercise, as it somehow threatened your world view and you chose to attack the messenger without your really understanding the message.

You are still attacking based on your own misinterpretation of what occurred in a completely different topic and don’t seem to be able to let it go.

Stop obsessing, have a stiff drink and relax. It will all be ok.

[HoreTore]

don't they need to know how and what the media is reporting?

You mean they need to watch TV?

[Tuuvi]

You mean they need to watch TV?

Does watching TV give you an idea of what's going on behind the scenes? Does it let you know how the broadcaster decides which news stories to report and how? I'm sorry but at this point I am going to have to agree with Fisherking, you are so closed minded that you just refuse to understand.

[Fisherking]

Partisan by what standard? The study is an attempt to counter the lie-factory that is Fox News, and to establish some standards elsewhere (CNN... MSNBC... they're all trash and everyone knows it). At least he's not trying to cut PBS (the last bastion of real news on TV!) like the other party.

All administrations are partisan to one extent or another. If you trust one with the power to censor you trust them all.

If you don’t see potential for abuse you are wearing blinders. What would you have said if the Bush administration had proposed such measures?

[HoreTore]

Does watching TV give you an idea of what's going on behind the scenes?

Do you need that knowledge in order to figure out which news stations are hurting "the powers that be"?

Why, exactly, is news selection a vital criteria for media shutdown abuse?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

All administrations are partisan to one extent or another. If you trust one with the power to censor you trust them all.

If you don’t see potential for abuse you are wearing blinders. What would you have said if the Bush administration had proposed such measures?

Good points. Censorship is a poor road down which to travel. I favor it only in highly restricted -- and temporary -- instances (such as prior to and during the opening phases of a military operation).

[Fisherking]

Just a study to best determine how to have broadcast and print media to report what the government wants you to know.

How enlightened. Government approved news. Brilliant.

The commissioners are all political appointees serving at the pleasure of the President, that makes it fair and balanced for sure, huh.

Moving into print media isn’t an unprecedented step either, is it?

It will all be just fine. Sometimes everything sounds like MSNBC or USA To Day, at other times they all sound like Fox and The Washington Times. Of course if your guys control it first it makes it harder for the other party to come back. I guess you like that prospect too.

As long as your guys control the news it is a public service, when the other side does it is tyranny.

[Fisherking]

Were from the government and we are here to help!


You can put your faith in corporations to bring you the news you need, (bad idea)

Or allow the government to decide what it is you need to know (worse idea).

Especially since the administration and member of congress have called for laws revoking first amendment privilege from those not employed by approved news organizations…. So you would not have access to other outside sources.

The only way you are going to be informed is to examine differing viewpoints on the various topics and making up your own mind. If you don’t then all I can say is, what I have heard is a French proverb.

If you don’t do politics, politics will do you.

[Sarmatian]

Were from the government and we are here to help!


You can put your faith in corporations to bring you the news you need, (bad idea)

Or allow the government to decide what it is you need to know (worse idea).

Especially since the administration and member of congress have called for laws revoking first amendment privilege from those not employed by approved news organizations…. So you would not have access to other outside sources.

The only way you are going to be informed is to examine differing viewpoints on the various topics and making up your own mind. If you don’t then all I can say is, what I have heard is a French proverb.

If you don’t do politics, politics will do you.

Let's put it this way - something bad happens and you have to have a date with the surgeoun in the hospital - would you rather government set the standard for his education and the procedure or a corporation?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Let's put it this way - something bad happens and you have to have a date with the surgeoun in the hospital - would you rather government set the standard for his education and the procedure or a corporation?

Neither. A reputable professional association that sets standards based on the good (and reputation) of its craft -- which is what we have now.

GC:

Fisherking has the right of this one. If it were simply a study, then hire academics and have them report results to your select committee investigating the issue -- it is what we academics do and we have research procedures that have been well vetted to both address the issue and protect the study subjects.

As currently formatted, it appears to me to be the snout of a very ugly camel.....

[HoreTore]

Neither. A reputable professional association that sets standards based on the good (and reputation) of its craft -- which is what we have now.

GC:

Fisherking has the right of this one. If it were simply a study, then hire academics and have them report results to your select committee investigating the issue -- it is what we academics do and we have research procedures that have been well vetted to both address the issue and protect the study subjects.

As currently formatted, it appears to me to be the snout of a very ugly camel.....

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

[Seamus Fermanagh]

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

A fair point. It could very well be an exercise in unthinking empire creep for someone at FCC as opposed to anything Stalinist. Good reminder.

[Fisherking]

People seldom do what they do for the sake of evil. Who was it who said “everyone is right from their own side”?

I am sure the idea was well intentioned. A lot of bad, a lot of misery is due to unintended consequences.

Then there are those who thing the ends justify the means. Good or bad often depends on where you happen to find your self. Those in charge can usually find good justifications for what they do, but they are not the ones being effected in most instances.

[Beskar]

I got linked this video, but it doesn't seem to work, but I know a few of you might be interested in it, I will post the script of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ingIn-bj-hk

Script:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The British and US intelligence agencies are systematically employing deceptive tactics to monitor, manipulate and subvert the activities of individuals in various online activist organizations who have never been charged with crimes, according to a report on Glenn Greenwald's website, the Intercept.

The report is based on a 50-page presentation by the British spy agency GCHQ to the NSA and other agencies, entitled "The Art of Deception: Training for a New Generation of Online Covert Operations." The document expands on details of methods used by GCHQ and its previously secret unit, the Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group (JTRIG), reported in previous leaks from Snowden.

Greenwald notes that JTRIG is engaged in "online covert action" (OCA) against individuals and groups in an effort "to inject all sorts of false material onto the internet in order to destroy the reputation of its targets," as well as "to use social sciences and other techniques to manipulate online discourse and activism to generate outcomes it considers desirable."

The aim of these operations, as with the basic mission of the NSA and its partners, is not to combat "terrorism," but to target anyone considered a threat to the internal and geopolitical interests of the British and American ruling class.

Greenwald notes that the targets "extend far beyond the customary roster of normal spycraft: hostile nations and their leaders, military agencies, and intelligence services." They are primarily directed against "people suspected (but not charged or convicted) of ordinary crimes or, more broadly still, 'hacktivism,' meaning those who use online protest activity for political ends."

One slide, headlined "Disruption Operation Playbook" lists a number of tactics, including "infiltration operation," "ruse operation," "false flag operation" and "false rescue operation." Another, under the headline "Discredit a target," lists suggestions including "set up a honey-trap," "change their photos on social networking sites," "write a blog purporting to be one of their victims" and "email/text their colleagues, neighbours, friends etc."

"Claims that government agencies are infiltrating online communities and engaging in false flag operations to discredit targets are often dismissed as conspiracy theories, but these documents leave no doubt they are doing precisely that," Greenwald writes.

Also discussed in the document is the infiltration of online groups with the intent to undermine and disrupt them. The use of a "Human Science Operations Cell, devoted to online human intelligence and strategic influence and disruption," is intended to disrupt groups through the manipulation of ideological differences, competition, personal power, and other such conflicts.

As a member of the "Five Eyes" alliance with other English-speaking countries, the GCHQ has developed its methods in close collaboration with intelligence counterparts in the US and elsewhere. Covert actions are implemented with the assistance of local authorities, the report notes.

The report comes on the heels of another detailing a "dirty tricks" campaign used by JTRIG to lure targets into compromising situations via the promise of sexual acts, also known as "honey traps."

The methods employed by JTRIG echo the campaign used to attack and discredit organizations such as WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, who is currently seeking refuge from British and US authorities in the embassy of Ecuador in Britain. Members of the Swedish parliament leveled claims of rape against Assange in an attempt to discredit him as well as his organization, with the ultimate goal of silencing the whistleblower.

The report exposes the phony efforts of the Obama administration to enact so-called "reforms" of the NSA. Greenwald mentions Harvard law professor Cass Sunstein, previously the head of the White House's Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, as an early advocate of covert online activity to target activist groups. Sunstein was later appointed by Obama to a NSA review panel that proposed minor, cosmetic reforms aimed at ensuring that the agencies illegal activities continued.

disclaimer: doesn't reflect personal views

[Tellos Athenaios]

I much the same vein:


Quite a good and interesting talk.

[Papewaio]

Neither. A reputable professional association that sets standards based on the good (and reputation) of its craft -- which is what we have now.

That's not strictly true. I'm sure surgeons can be sued for professional misconduct through the law courts and not just risk censure by their professional associations.

[Beskar]

CIA caught spying on the US Senate who was investigating the CIA.

Links here and here

[Greyblades]

Honestly not surprising at this point.