responding to common objections to bible part 7

[total relism]

You can't blame total relism for being unfamiliar with reality, as he can't even spell the word.

ad hominem

this thread is becoming disappointing, facts out the window and resulting in logical fallacies.

please let me in on this amazing reality,that can change creation accounts that differ greatly and change time and wording of them and go back in time and make one copy the other [yet change the whole thing,point,topic etc] i call it a fantasy,faith,not sure what,false maybe?.

[Pannonian]

ad hominem

this thread is becoming disappointing, facts out the window and resulting in logical fallacies.

please let me in on this amazing reality,that can change creation accounts that differ greatly and change time and wording of them and go back in time and make one copy the other [yet change the whole thing,point,topic etc] i call it a fantasy,faith,not sure what,false maybe?.

It would be hard to charge you with logical fallacy. One would have to sort through your numerous grammatical fallacies first before one can make out what kind of logical argument you're trying to put forward.

[Kadagar_AV]

OK, who gave TR the link to the logical fallacies??

[Brenus]

"showing hebrew was first": Non-sense
Basic archaeology: Stones tools were invented and used before the Iron one because it is more simple to make tools from stone than from iron as iron needs the development of several technology and knowledge.
It is the same for the material where we can write. Caves wall are perfect but can't be moved. So humans founded new media, and the Clay tablets being one of the media. Clay tablets were used before papyrus or Animals Skins as it is easy to write on it, and to shape. And when baked, it stay as new for a long time (if not broken by pillaging barbarians)So, when you find a library full of Clay Tablets that means it is older than a library full of papyrus.
We don't have any Clay Tablets with texts from the Bible. We have Clay Tablets for the book of Gilgamesh. So, Book of Gilgamesh is older than Bible, like a Bronze axe is older than Iron axe but newer that a Stone axe.
Before you ask, the older Jewish Clay Tablet is dated from the 14 Century BC, which is after the fall of the Sumerian Civilisation (oldest Sumerian Clay Tablet is 6000 BC). The book of Gilgamesh is, perhaps, the oldest written story on Earth. It was originally written on 12 clay tablets in cunieform script (somewhere between 2750 and 2500 BCE).

[Kadagar_AV]

TR, you are aware that you are the one making a claim that "the flood" existed.

Thus, it comes to YOU to prove it.

Be my guest.

The idea is quite honestly laughable.

[Beskar]

There is an old argument about a flood existing, originating from Babylonian mythology and there was some evidence. However, it was a large localised flooding, nothing global spanning.

[Kadagar_AV]

There is an old argument about a flood existing, originating from Babylonian mythology and there was some evidence. However, it was a large localised flooding, nothing global spanning.

Yepp, don't get me wrong. I am sure that somewhere in history a local area was flooded. We see it every day.

Now, as to a world wide flood... And an Ark... <- It is, to put it very mildly, rubbish.

[HoreTore]

There is an old argument about a flood existing, originating from Babylonian mythology and there was some evidence. However, it was a large localised flooding, nothing global spanning.

All early civilizations arose around a river. They were based on the annual flooding, but a larger-than-normal flooding would spell doom.

It's no surprise that you'll find myths concerning a giant flood in each of these civilizations. It was the ultimate fear of these civilizations.

ad hominem

this thread is becoming disappointing, facts out the window and resulting in logical fallacies.

Nonsense. Again, don't play with fallacies until you're older, son. Ad hominem is concerned with an argument. More specifically, it is when someone tries to disquise an attack upon a person as an argument against their case.

Pannonian made a remark on your person which he did not try to disguise as an argument against your case. Thus, this is not an example of an ad hominem argument.

Anyway, you wrote in your OP:

Just as the whole bible was, it is confirmed by archeology over and over,confirming people,places,events at various times throughout biblical history.

I have attempted to debate this point, but you refused to comment on the contradictory statements of Matthew and Luke concerning the date of Jesus' birth. So, I'll try another:

The exodus is a made up story. The Jewish people were never held in captivity in Egypt. The story is not found anywhere else than in the bible, and the Egyptians were very keen on recording their history. There is no mention of hardships for Egypt in the time the plagues supposedly took place, nor is there a reference to an army being lost. There is no archeological evidence of any Jewish presence in Egypt, and there's a wealth of evidence saying the Jews were in palestine the entire time. The places the jews supposedly stayed at during their 40 years in the desert did not exist until centuries later than when it supposedly took place. The bible, usually extremely anal about naming people, does not name the chief antagonist of the story, the Pharaoh.

In conclusion, the story was made up at a later date to justify jewish dominance over palestine. It is a political, not a historical, story.

[total relism]

TR, you are aware that you are the one making a claim that "the flood" existed.

Thus, it comes to YOU to prove it.

Be my guest.

The idea is quite honestly laughable.

while i indeed say yes to a global flood [with large amounts of evidence] i never said it on my op, that is for next thread. So stay tuned.

"showing hebrew was first": Non-sense
Basic archaeology: Stones tools were invented and used before the Iron one because it is more simple to make tools from stone than from iron as iron needs the development of several technology and knowledge.
It is the same for the material where we can write. Caves wall are perfect but can't be moved. So humans founded new media, and the Clay tablets being one of the media. Clay tablets were used before papyrus or Animals Skins as it is easy to write on it, and to shape. And when baked, it stay as new for a long time (if not broken by pillaging barbarians)So, when you find a library full of Clay Tablets that means it is older than a library full of papyrus.
We don't have any Clay Tablets with texts from the Bible. We have Clay Tablets for the book of Gilgamesh. So, Book of Gilgamesh is older than Bible, like a Bronze axe is older than Iron axe but newer that a Stone axe.
Before you ask, the older Jewish Clay Tablet is dated from the 14 Century BC, which is after the fall of the Sumerian Civilisation (oldest Sumerian Clay Tablet is 6000 BC). The book of Gilgamesh is, perhaps, the oldest written story on Earth. It was originally written on 12 clay tablets in cunieform script (somewhere between 2750 and 2500 BCE).

do you not see your assumption even assuming all you say is true? There are civilizations around today that dont have technology of USA or europe, yet are older. There are cases of people losing technology and going "backwards", so your dating is based 100% on assumptions [even if generally true] are not absolute. No to mention going off what we do have in archaeology does not equal what we dont have. There is famous saying in archaeology [forget who dont ask] said absence of evidence is not evidence against.


but i am glad to see you have moved the goalpost, you no longer defend isreal copying in 6th century bc it seems. That is the date that is important, did jews creation acount predate this time period that it is claimed they copied, the answer is yes, for the many reasons i gave earlier you ignored [or at least did not respond to]. Not to mention the whole idea of coping either jews were worse in world, or they never did [something your worldview cant accept]. To anyone who reads the text in full, i cant help but think they are not so willing to believe your claims as yourself.

[Brenus]

“you no longer defend isreal copying in 6th century bc it seems” Err, I never gave a date as it is, first, irrelevant, and, second, I have no indication of when the Jewish Script(s) decided to incorporate the Sumerian Myth in the Bible.

“There are civilizations around today that dont have technology of USA or europe, yet are older.” True, but irrelevant. If theses civilisations want to reach the level of Europe or USA, they will have to learn and developed the same skills. So, they will still have to learn the several technologies to make possible the development of a new technology.

“absence of evidence is not evidence against.” Nice try. Do try this in a Court of Justice. I have no evidence you kill your neighbour, doesn’t prove you didn’t kill him/her. In our case, even if the neighbour is still alive.

[Kadagar_AV]

while i indeed say yes to a global flood [with large amounts of evidence] i never said it on my op, that is for next thread. So stay tuned.

No way, that's not how things are run here.

You cant make idiotic claims, completely unsupported, and expect people to move on with a vague statement of "future thread".

Your threads SO FAR have been laughed out because of their absurdity, and your lack of understanding when questioned upon them. Is the future thread you talk about of the same quality?

Your style of argumentation is completely idiotic, rinse and repeat and MAYBE I start taking your seriously.

[total relism]

No way, that's not how things are run here.

You cant make idiotic claims, completely unsupported, and expect people to move on with a vague statement of "future thread".

Your threads SO FAR have been laughed out because of their absurdity, and your lack of understanding when questioned upon them. Is the future thread you talk about of the same quality?

Your style of argumentation is completely idiotic, rinse and repeat and MAYBE I start taking your seriously.

sorry you feel that way, but when people say things [no evidence for flood etc] i simply tell them of a future thread coming if they are interested that disagrees with them and can come and talk etc. I think it is a good idea to stay on topic of thread it may be crazy, but that i think is the general idea of having a topic and op of a thread. If things are indeed run different here [please link rules for forum] let me know and i will change.