Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all

[Kadagar_AV]

While I'm glad everyone's getting all authoritarian-statist here, that's clearly excessive and a waste of resources.

Is it - when society is in free fall?

The Sweden I grew up in isn't the Sweden I live in now. And it hasn't changed for the better.


Myth, I honestly believe that the meeting of cultures, unless very harshly monitored, quite often leads to the worse of both (or all) cultures being enhanced.

Take the words "whore" or "slut"... When I was in school, those were words that were just no-no. A girl would claw your eyes out if you uttered them to her. Today, with the muslim influx, I doubt few girls can go through school without being called those words.

It's not because muslims treat their women like shit in their own cultures (well........), it's because it's the meeting of cultures that created the problem. Swedish feminism and dress codes meet muslim view on women and dress codes. It's easy to see where this goes wrong, and it explains why rapes are now the new cool thing to have in your psychological backpack as a hot young girl in Sweden.

In your example of Bulgaria, I guess the police are rather strict and baton-friendly when it comes to explaining where these juvenile criminals can and can't monkey up.

In Sweden, the police isn't baton friendly and thus that culture can roam free in society at large.

It's the meeting of cultures that creates culture-clashes, the cultures themselves mustn't necessarily be ill functioning as is.

[Myth]

The police are very strict when it comes to beating on ethnic Bulgarians.

See this article from last year. Translated, the title says: "40,000 police officers will be securing the Levski - CSKA football game"

Fourty thousand. Our entire regular army is 30, 000

They however, are neutered and can't enforce the law in the rural regions where we get reports of roma raping grandmothers, breaking into houses, stealing livestock in broad daylight and such. They don't lack the courage or the baton power, but they are stopped by the brass to avoid any misunderstanding with Brussels. No one wants to be bombed because they're oppressing the minority! However, this leads to the minorities oppressing the elderly and defenseless in the rural regions.

You know what's funny? When the son of a local Roma crime boss, known for the distilling of fake alcohol (i've had Jack Daniels which tasted like pig slop mixed with rubbing alcohol in the past) murdered a Bulgarian kid the football hooligans were the ones who went to defend the other people in that village. They also torched his place. The police beat only on the hooligans. IMO they should have beaten on all of them. I mean, the Roma deserve to not be discriminated against and be denied the police baton to the teeth!

bottom line: the police should be empowered to do their job and no drama would be had.

[Kadagar_AV]

The police are very strict when it comes to beating on ethnic Bulgarians.

See this article from last year. Translated, the title says: "40,000 police officers will be securing the Levski - CSKA football game"

Fourty thousand. Our entire regular army is 30, 000

They however, are neutered and can't enforce the law in the rural regions where we get reports of roma raping grandmothers, breaking into houses, stealing livestock in broad daylight and such. They don't lack the courage or the baton power, but they are stopped by the brass to avoid any misunderstanding with Brussels. No one wants to be bombed because they're oppressing the minority! However, this leads to the minorities oppressing the elderly and defenseless in the rural regions.

You know what's funny? When the son of a local Roma crime boss, known for the distilling of fake alcohol (i've had Jack Daniels which tasted like pig slop mixed with rubbing alcohol in the past) murdered a Bulgarian kid the football hooligans were the ones who went to defend the other people in that village. They also torched his place. The police beat only on the hooligans. IMO they should have beaten on all of them. I mean, the Roma deserve to not be discriminated against and be denied the police baton to the teeth!

bottom line: the police should be empowered to do their job and no drama would be had.

I am working on a thread about gypsys, to share with you all. So let's not dwell on that debate (I of course see your point though).

Do I read you right, when you agree that eastern European football hooliganism isn't the problem, as you there send more than your regular army to games, whereas it becomes a problem in Sweden, where we send "dialogue police" to matches.

Don't get me wrong, of course it's also a problem in your country.

But you do understand my view of it being the culture clashes that mainly creates problems?

I think Gypsys, as an example and again let's not dwell on it overly here - would cut their "burden on society" short if they lived in a strictly Gypsy society. Not that they want to, of course.

[Myth]

Yeap. To put it in perspective, something shady is happening with Syrian refugees on our territory. We were supposed to allow 5000 tops, only to stay for a while. Now we have about 10 times that nubmer and Brussels is already telling us how to integrate them in our society. Why should we? Greece closed off their borders for Syrian refugees. Bulgaria can't. It has to integrate them.

Why does Sweden have to turn into a melting pot and why is your police completely neutered? Same deal.

We have a saying here - "The one eating pie for free isn't crazy. The one giving it for free is." Your government wants the Sweden you live in now.

[Ironside]

Kadagar, have you moved since your childhood?

I'm asking, because it's not hard to find areas that fits your childhood memories today and it's not hard to find areas that would beat it to a bloody pulp in 1980.

Some changes are certainly general though, like outright street begging isn't that old.

[HoreTore]

The Sweden I grew up in isn't the Sweden I live in now. And it hasn't changed for the better.

Bollox.

The "Sweden you grew up in" was Sweden at its most violent. Nowadays, it's as peaceful as the 50's.

[Kadagar_AV]

Bollox.

The "Sweden you grew up in" was Sweden at its most violent. Nowadays, it's as peaceful as the 50's.

YOU. MUST. BE. ON. DRUGS.

Nice leftist extremist blog, now go to BRÅ (the stately organ working with crime), violence statistics are shown there.

Heck, even a monkey would get it in a few minutes, so I expect an apology from you in, say, a few hours?

[HoreTore]

YOU. MUST. BE. ON. DRUGS.

Nice leftist extremist blog, now go to BRÅ (the stately organ working with crime)

Here ya go.

A linkie from BRÅ stating the exact same thing.

But have fun with your blind fanaticism.

[Myth]

Can someone translate the jist of it for those of us who don't speak Viking?

[HoreTore]

Can someone translate the jist of it for those of us who don't speak Viking?

Basically:

The number of murders have been relatively stable since the 50's. There was a spike in the early 90's, which has now gone down to "normal" levels again. The largest groups of foreigners committing murders in Sweden are the feared roving gangs of Norwegians and Finns.

While you could blame the 90's spike on immigration, it was over very quickly and now things are back to normal. It would also change the immigrant group in question from Somalis and Afghans(they weren't here back then) to Vietnamese, Pakistanis, Syrians and Kurds.

However, the 90's spike also coincides with the end of the 80's economic boom and the financial crashes afterwards. Hmmm.......

[Kadagar_AV]

Can someone translate the jist of it for those of us who don't speak Viking?

I'll translate.

HT, states that violence has decreased, because less people are murdered these days.

I state that overall violence statistically have increased, but yes, criminals know that murder is one of those crimes where the police really still bother.


Take what happened to me as we're in this thread, they were not out to MURDER me. They were out to physically and mentally harm.

HT believes murder is the only manner to look at violence in a society.

I however note that other violence have gone up, and ascribe the lower murder percentage to everyone now watching CSI, and know they won't easily get away with it. Also modern medicine can save more people that would previously have died.

HT, will not touch any sort of violence statistics as he then get sad in the eye.

I however look at statistics and also have a "hands on" experience.

*OK, so I can jest about it, I think it was Gregoshi-worthy*



EDIT: CSI effect aside, HT also choose to forget that modern medicine can save a lot of lives that would before have been not-so-saved. Also edited it in where it belonged.

Seriously pathetic argument, HT.

[HoreTore]

Nonsense.

Murder is the sole definite crime statistic. We know about all of them. Every other statistic have huge dark figures, and so its usefulness is limited. We know that we only know about a fraction of them.

You can use it for arguing tendencies and such, but you must always be aware that there will be a ton of other explanations for your numbers than the one you choose to go with.

Murder is different. Murder is final.

The only assumption you need to make when it comes to murder, is the assumption that the number of murders in a society is a decent reflection of the level of crime in a country. Since we do not have a tradition of honour killings and such here, this is a reasonable assumption.

For other crimes, you need to make a ton of other assumption for your conclusion, which makes it a lot more uncertain.