Speaking of Israel...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The sense of guilt will last longer than the deaths of those remaining Holocaust survivors. How much longer I am unsure.

A Jewish friend of mine talked about visiting the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin, and for Germans under thirty the guilt is already mostly gone. Increasingly, the camp guards etc. who committed the Holocaust are also fading from memory, and in another 25 years they will be the great-grandfathers of the ruling class rather than the grandfathers.

The US tends towards memorialism more than Europe, so perhaps it's more of a thing over there but here's we're returning to "business as usual" to the extent that during the financial crash the term "Anglo-Saxon banker" was declared with a nod and a wink, and a candidate for London Mayor can be openly anti-Semitic without being pilloried.

Palestine and the Diaspora outnumber the 'Jews' in Israel, so they do not want to integrate option due to becoming a minority within the state. If the numbers were the other way around, it would have worked better.

Alternative solution would be the integration of the diaspora within Jordan properly opposed to refugee status, considering Jordan is pretty much ethnic palestinian in makeup then work with some solution as to the lands within the bloc as you are suggesting.

Maybe it's time for the Israelis to lump it? The commitment to a "Jewish Homeland" was never intended to produce a soverign state, and that state has frankly become an embarrassment to the West.

[ICantSpellDawg]

War is war. Both sides attack civilians and should expect nothing less in return.

[Pannonian]

A Jewish friend of mine talked about visiting the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin, and for Germans under thirty the guilt is already mostly gone. Increasingly, the camp guards etc. who committed the Holocaust are also fading from memory, and in another 25 years they will be the great-grandfathers of the ruling class rather than the grandfathers.

The US tends towards memorialism more than Europe, so perhaps it's more of a thing over there but here's we're returning to "business as usual" to the extent that during the financial crash the term "Anglo-Saxon banker" was declared with a nod and a wink, and a candidate for London Mayor can be openly anti-Semitic without being pilloried.



Maybe it's time for the Israelis to lump it? The commitment to a "Jewish Homeland" was never intended to produce a soverign state, and that state has frankly become an embarrassment to the West.

I wish we'd just keep the whole region as isolated from us as possible, instead of keeping "key interests" there and supporting this state or that state. Other than the oil in the oil states, there is nothing of interest there that we don't already have within the EU. If they want to kill each other, rather than wring our hands over how it never ends, we should just leave them to it. If there is any legal way possible, I'd strip anyone who enters that region of UK citizenship. That guy whose son appeared in Syria got it right. His son was a traitor to his country. Similarly with that British-Jewish guy a few years back who harped endlessly on about doing aaliyah and joining the Israeli army. If they identify with an identity other than British, wash our hands of them.

[Hooahguy]

Similarly with that British-Jewish guy a few years back who harped endlessly on about doing aaliyah and joining the Israeli army. If they identify with an identity other than British, wash our hands of them.

Now you know how I feel about all those twats who serve in the IDF then come back to the US and live the rest of their lives. I dont mind if you want to move to Israel and serve, just dont bother coming back and living here if you feel so strongly about defending your "home."

[Greyblades]

Now you know how I feel about all those twats who serve in the IDF then come back to the US and live the rest of their lives. I dont mind if you want to move to Israel and serve, just dont bother coming back and living here if you feel so strongly about defending your "home."

Sounds familiar, same sort of thing that happened with american irish and the IRA.

[HoreTore]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/.premium-1.602767#

[Sarmatian]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/.premium-1.602767#

Sad, really sad.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/.premium-1.602767#

Yeah, it's terrible.

Racism is pretty common, though, and as ugly as Israel can be we need to keep it in context.

[Tellos Athenaios]

and that state has frankly become an embarrassment to the West.

More seriously, it has frankly become an embarrassment to plenty of its own citizens.

To the west it is a liability with a severe case of psychopathy at best, and a little hellhole actively competing for "most insidous caste system based on ethnicity and religious fundamentalism" at worst.

Case in point: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...851982465.html

The sooner we disentangle ourselves from this entirely, the better. Who knows, it might even give us the opportunity to formulate a sane strategy towards the Middle East that gets us something in return.

[Fragony]

Looks like earlier speculations of the Palestinian kid being a victim of a family feud were wrong. He was probably burned alive by extremist jews. How can you do such a thing. Pouring gasoline over someone and actually set someone on fire. How screwed up can you be, that boy probably never hurted anyone. fu

[Beskar]

How can you do such a thing. Pouring gasoline over someone and actually set someone on fire. How screwed up can you be, that boy probably never hurted anyone.

Exactly that. Monsters don't have borders and neither do innocents.

[Hooahguy]

Pretty amusing to hear the stammering from my extremely Zionist friends: "Oh no, the people who did this probably were those Israeli Christians or something, a Jew could never do this" and "Im sure they are just lying or something, Haaretz is clearly Palestinian propaganda!" and even worse, "that kid deserved it for the murders of the three the Palestinians murdered."

The whole "blood for blood" thing makes me sick. Unfriended a few people from facebook over this.

[Greyblades]

An eye for an eye destroys the sunglasses industry... I might be remembering that wrong.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Pretty amusing to hear the stammering from my extremely Zionist friends: "Oh no, the people who did this probably were those Israeli Christians or something, a Jew could never do this" and "Im sure they are just lying or something, Haaretz is clearly Palestinian propaganda!" and even worse, "that kid deserved it for the murders of the three the Palestinians murdered."

The whole "blood for blood" thing makes me sick. Unfriended a few people from facebook over this.

Well, it does say "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life"

If you want to see it in a literally Biblical context, then for every "Jew" the "Palestinians" kill and death should be returned in kind - until all the Palestinians are dead, down to the last man, woman, and child.

Like the Amonites.

[Pannonian]

Well, it does say "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life"

If you want to see it in a literally Biblical context, then for every "Jew" the "Palestinians" kill and death should be returned in kind - until all the Palestinians are dead, down to the last man, woman, and child.

Like the Amonites.

The Amonites were already on a lengthy decline when they were finally finished off by the asteroid that took out the dinosaurs. No need to blame the Israelites for that.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

...The whole "blood for blood" thing makes me sick. Unfriended a few people from facebook over this.

I kept looking at this closing line....it could almost stand as an epigram for your generation.

[Hooahguy]

Well, it really is the best way to cut someone you dont see everyday from your life. Besides most of those calling for blood who I know are mostly in Israel now, which means Im not interested in talking to them anyways.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Exactly that. Monsters don't have borders and neither do innocents.

"If you gaze for long enough into the abyss....."

[Beskar]

"If you gaze for long enough into the abyss....."

I am curious as to what you mean with that question in this regard, are you thinking of the framing where one side thinks "palestinians are all the monsters" and the opposite?

[Myth]

Why don't they just move? I'm sure there's plenty of land in the US midwest for example and no one will be killing them etc.

[Hooahguy]

I am curious as to what you mean with that question in this regard, are you thinking of the framing where one side thinks "palestinians are all the monsters" and the opposite?

Well the full quote is

He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.

so if I had to guess it probably means something along the lines of that people tend to become the thing that they are fighting after a long enough period. A classic example of this occurring would be Animal Farm.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I am curious as to what you mean with that question in this regard, are you thinking of the framing where one side thinks "palestinians are all the monsters" and the opposite?

Pretty much. Both sides' protracted intransigence has allowed them to fall into this cognitively simple, but ultimately self-defeating rut.

If you stop thinking of the other side as a group of persons with hopes, dreams, aspirations, limited perception etc. -- just as you yourself possess -- it is all too easy to de-humanize them. The only way to win then is via eradication of the opponent -- which history teaches us always exacts a harsh if delayed price on the victor as well.

Rome's eradication of Carthage led, over time, to the destruction of the Roman Republic.

The USSR's eradication of Nazi Germany did damage that modern Russia is still coping with, and ended up creating the context for the USSR's own dissolution.

etc.


Plus, quoting Nietzche always has that "badass" cachet.....

[Fragony]

I am curious as to what you mean with that question in this regard, are you thinking of the framing where one side thinks "palestinians are all the monsters" and the opposite?

It's from Nietschze 'if you gaze long enough in the abysd the abyss gazes into you'