Speaking of Israel...

[a completely inoffensive name]

From the same blog, also very interesting:

What have we learned?

You taught us to pick up guns, you taught us to slaughter and persecute and ethnically cleanse, you taught us that the only way to protect ourselves was to stop preaching peace and patience because that leads to our graves. We learned your lessons well
[...]
So take some responsibility.

​Hilarious.

[lars573]

Problem is he has point.

[Husar]

Yeah, it's all my fault because I'm born a Nazi.

[Papewaio]

Problem is he has point.

Historic timeline as a problem though.

Israel was forming before WWII.

Whilst the Holocaust was happening British controlled Palestine was being destabilized by Zionists who were already doing all the following:
"You taught us to pick up guns, you taught us to slaughter and persecute and ethnically cleanse, you taught us that the only way to protect ourselves was to stop preaching peace and patience because that leads to our graves. We learned "

[Hooahguy]

Historic timeline as a problem though.

Israel was forming before WWII.

Whilst the Holocaust was happening British controlled Palestine was being destabilized by Zionists who were already doing all the following:
"You taught us to pick up guns, you taught us to slaughter and persecute and ethnically cleanse, you taught us that the only way to protect ourselves was to stop preaching peace and patience because that leads to our graves. We learned "

True, but what kicked off modern Zionism was the Dreyfus Affair which was just another big incident of antisemitism.

Point Im trying to make here is that Jews have been underfoot for centuries, and when they finally have someone else underfoot are we really so surprised that they exercise that power?

[Montmorency]

That quote, though, seemed more like:



Which instantly confirms ACIN's attitude.

[Greyblades]

Problem is he has point.

Does he? Because some of our ancestors were dicks and could be considered responsible for giving jews a bad attitude we can't judge them for not learning from assholery and start to imitate us at our ancestor's most asshole-ish? Even though nearly all of us living now are exempt of the previously mentioned dickery purely because we learned not to be such assholes?

​Hilarious.

Could you expand on this?

[a completely inoffensive name]

Could you expand on this?

Yeah, it was humorously wrong, so I found it hilarious. Ok, but in seriousness we didn't teach anything and it's not our fault they "listened". They picked what they wanted to follow, it was never forced. If Israeli's wanted to, they could have abandoned the idea of Israel when it became apparent it would only create lots of violence. But they didn't. They could have set an example as a multicultural state in the same vein that Europe has been attempting for the last 40 years but they didn't.

It's all a big joke. We agree with this philosophy and we have taken it to such extremes that we slaughter Palestinians and evict them from their homes. But the burden is on the West because it is "their" philosophy and "their" teachings. What does that even mean? Did the West invent forced migrations? Pretty sure that's been around for quite some time in human history.

[Hooahguy]

I think it should be less "this is your fault" and more "why are you surprised?" than anything else. I mean Jews have been expelled from countries around the world for centuries when they werent wanted, so I suppose it makes sense that Israel learned how to effectively deal with "undesirables" from past experience. Problem is, the world changed and the "undesirables" fought back.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I think it should be less "this is your fault" and more "why are you surprised?" than anything else. I mean Jews have been expelled from countries around the world for centuries when they werent wanted, so I suppose it makes sense that Israel learned how to effectively deal with "undesirables" from past experience. Problem is, the world changed and the "undesirables" fought back.

That argument is the root of all modern anti-Semitism though.

Bear in mind, the people who allowed Israel to be founded were Christians, the people in the West now think like Christians even if they are not. Christian thought says that it is better to die than to do evil, and that you turn the other cheek when someone hurts you.

Jewish though demands and eye for an eye - one straw poll I saw on Youtube had a lot of Israeli Jews saying "yes, they believed in vengeance". You'd never get anyone in Western Europe or the US saying "yes, let's take revenge on those people."

So, when this argument is put forward - I've seen it before - it basically tells the Christianised populations in Europe etc. that the Jews are not actually "like us" and that they are not forgiving, that they will take the worst possible lesson from a bad situation.

That argument makes Jewish though repulsive - it feeds straight back into the traditional "Christ killer" slander.

[Husar]

I think one can have that thought without wanting to get rid of jews.

Even the "christ killer" argument is silly because if you care a lot about christ, you should know that he wouldn't want you to avenge him.

Nonetheless I find it strange how so many Christians support jews per default even though the jews reject Jesus as the messiah. Does that mean if I convert from Christianity to judaism I still go to heaven but can follow completely different rules?

[Hooahguy]

Bear in mind, the people who allowed Israel to be founded were Christians, the people in the West now think like Christians even if they are not. Christian thought says that it is better to die than to do evil, and that you turn the other cheek when someone hurts you.

Jewish though demands and eye for an eye - one straw poll I saw on Youtube had a lot of Israeli Jews saying "yes, they believed in vengeance". You'd never get anyone in Western Europe or the US saying "yes, let's take revenge on those people."

Its one thing to say that Christian theory detests violence, but then you look at the Spanish Inquisition, the thousands of religious pogroms incited by how the Jews killed Jesus and other things like that, and finally the Holocaust where most Christian leaders stayed silent as millions were murdered, and you wonder why Jews as a people tend not to trust other people who arent within the fold? Undoubtedly Christian-Jewish relations have improved over the past 70 years but the distrust will always be there. Is that a fault in the way that the Jewish community thinks? Absolutely. But is that kind of distrust expected? Absolutely.

And I think you overestimate the way that other people in the West thinks when it comes to vengeance. Just look at post 9/11, everyone was clamoring for vengeance and Im sure there are examples of that in Europe as well.

So, when this argument is put forward - I've seen it before - it basically tells the Christianised populations in Europe etc. that the Jews are not actually "like us" and that they are not forgiving, that they will take the worst possible lesson from a bad situation.

The problem is that the way Israel is reacting is how Europe would react to things like this before the whole human rights idea took hold. Judaism as a culture is very big on memory, and has many prayers and songs how through the generations "they" tried to kill the Jews but we survived. So its a very "survivor" mentality which feeds into this idea that now that Jews finally have a state to call their own, they will fight tooth and nail to keep it safe from all threats, and right now the biggest threat are the Palestinians. So what do they do? They take the lessons that were learned from centuries of persecution and apply it to that threat.

Nonetheless I find it strange how so many Christians support jews per default even though the jews reject Jesus as the messiah. Does that mean if I convert from Christianity to judaism I still go to heaven but can follow completely different rules?

From my understanding its from the thought that if all Jews go back to Israel it will trigger the messiah coming or something along those lines.

[Tellos Athenaios]

You'd never get anyone in Western Europe or the US saying "yes, let's take revenge on those people."

A certain former president and a certain serving president of two terms in recent memory are not feeling very appreciated today.

Arguably, the drone strike program is straight out of Israel's "vengeance is a dish best served by missile" book.