Pan-Caucasian Empire reforms

[rickinator9]

I just started a Hayasdan playthrough and I noticed their reforms are in EBII! Now, have there been any changes to them?

[Codyos Vladimiros]

I just started a Hayasdan playthrough and I noticed their reforms are in EBII! Now, have there been any changes to them?

I wonder if that's connected to what I see here, but I have no idea. Or how to impliment them; in the old game, you destroyed the governmental buildings, then rebuilt them differently. And I tried that...and it's the same government (Caucuses Tribal Kingdom or whatever)

Sooo...yes, I'm wondering too!

[Arjos]

There is a Pan-Caucasian Kingdom event, which unlocks the possibility to build a Royal Capital at Armavir and satrapies throughout the domain...

There is also a New Persian Empire event for expanding in Persia and having Eastern Tribalism drop below 50% in Armavir, which will change the faction's culture to Eastern Imperial...

What Codyos Vladimiros has unlocked is the possibility to build in another province the top level of government. This represents a second capital, similar to the winter and summer royal residences :)

[Codyos Vladimiros]

There is a Pan-Caucasian Kingdom event, which unlocks the possibility to build a Royal Capital at Armavir and satrapies throughout the domain...

There is also a New Persian Empire event for expanding in Persia and having Eastern Tribalism drop below 50% in Armavir, which will change the faction's culture to Eastern Imperial...

What Codyos Vladimiros has unlocked is the possibility to build in another province the top level of government. This represents a second capital, similar to the winter and summer royal residences :)

So how does that work? I pretty much have all of my provinces (except Media and Pontos Parallelos) as the highest governmental thing I can do, Caucasian Tribal Kingdom.

(For that matter, what provinces do I need to open up the reforms?)

[Arjos]

Check if in Armavir you can build a better government building (might've to destroy the tribal one there)...

Afterwards you should also be able to build satrapies, and when you've conquered 14 regions (including Armavir, Babylonia, Ekbatana, and Persepolis) the Persian Empire event should trigger if you also have less than 50% Eastern Tribalism in Armavir...

[Codyos Vladimiros]

Check if in Armavir you can build a better government building (might've to destroy the tribal one there)...

Afterwards you should also be able to build satrapies, and when you've conquered 14 regions (including Armavir, Babylonia, Ekbatana, and Persepolis) the Persian Empire event should trigger if you also have less than 50% Eastern Tribalism in Armavir...

I just got the popup saying that the reforms were possible...but there is no option to build a better governmental building, even after destroying the tribal government. Just the "conquored territory" option. If I quickbuild using the console, all I still get is the tribal government as an option as Armavir....is there something I'm missing? Do I need to do it in all the territories at the same time?

[Arjos]

I'll throw a tentative @V.T. Marvin for he'd definitely know this :)

[Pimarch]

I just got the popup saying that the reforms were possible...but there is no option to build a better governmental building, even after destroying the tribal government. Just the "conquored territory" option. If I quickbuild using the console, all I still get is the tribal government as an option as Armavir....is there something I'm missing? Do I need to do it in all the territories at the same time?

I have exactly the same problem over here.

[Codyos Vladimiros]

I tried rebuilding the governments and waiting through...and still nothing. I even waiting for a turn after I built the last one. Hmmm.

*shrugs* Maybe I'll take on the Seleucids and see if I can get the Persian Empire reforms, unless the Pan-caucasian empire reforms are required as a prerequisite...

[Vermin]

I got the Notification about the Kings power having grown so he could take over direct control of a Satrapy many turns before the notification of the Pan Caucasus reforms (and the Satrapy notification recurs every turn). Unfortunately I cannot build a Royal Palace in the Capital, regardless of whether or not I destroy the existing government buildings. Do you need a certain city size? Do you need to rebuild military occupation before you can build the Royal Palace?

[Codyos Vladimiros]

I got the Notification about the Kings power having grown so he could take over direct control of a Satrapy many turns before the notification of the Pan Caucasus reforms (and the Satrapy notification recurs every turn). Unfortunately I cannot build a Royal Palace in the Capital, regardless of whether or not I destroy the existing government buildings. Do you need a certain city size? Do you need to rebuild military occupation before you can build the Royal Palace?

Vermin, have you managed to get the Pan-Caucasus reforms working? If so, how?

[Vermin]

No. I have built Aramvir up to 6000+ city size. I speculate wildly that since the "Royal Hayasadan..." building is only available at size 12,000+ that this might be the issue. With "low" taxation this would probably take about 150-200 turns. during this time I am limited to pointy sticks for troops so warfare against my neighbors is very difficult! I stopped my Hayasadan campaign at c7000 city size. I also checked the forums at twcentre and the same issue is raised on two threads but no answer.
Cheers!
Vermin

[aapjes]

I was looking through the campaign script for information about reforms just now and I think the pan-caucasian reform is currently bugged.

I'm not very familiar with writing code but in this

monitor_event BuildingCompleted FactionType f_hayasdan
and NumBuildingsCompletedFaction hay_caucas > 5
and I_NumberOfSettlements f_hayasdan > 6
set_event_counter ecPanCaucasianKingdom 0
historic_event HE_CAUCASIAN_KINGDOM factions { f_hayasdan, }
terminate_monitor
end_monitor

piece of the script I assume set_event_counter ecPanCaucasianKingdom 0 should be set_event_counter ecPanCaucasianKingdom 1.

In the code that follows for the imperial reform it also checks for this.

You could try changing this but I don't know if it would fix it at all and I definitely don't know if it'd work if you already got the event.

e:The script is located in EBII\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign.

[joshmahurin]

Script changes are not save game compatible, you would need to start a new campaign to test this, though your solution seems reasonable. If I don't forget (don't hold your breath) I will try to poke around and confirm this. Otherwise I will just leave @V.T. Marvin a poke

[aapjes]

Script changes are not save game compatible, you would need to start a new campaign to test this, though your solution seems reasonable. If I don't forget (don't hold your breath) I will try to poke around and confirm this. Otherwise I will just leave @V.T. Marvin a poke

After some more digging I also found that the trigger for building the royal government for Hayasdan after the reforms is only deactivated at the end of Saka's turn (I assume because they use a similar script and it was copied). I don't think this actually matters though but I thought I'd mention it just in case.

[Vermin]

I will start another Hayasadan campaign and see if it works.
Thanks for doing the legwork on this!

[Vermin]

I have no success played until after 80 turns, conquered all 6 adjacent provinces to Aramvir, and - IF I read this correctly,

"monitor_event BuildingCompleted FactionType f_hayasdan" - is this a trigger - ie checks whenever Hayasadan completes a building?
"and NumBuildingsCompletedFaction hay_caucas > 5" - unsure - I have built more than 5 buildings in the ??"hay _caucas" - is this Aramvir or the caucasus region?
"and I_NumberOfSettlements f_hayasdan > 6" - met - I have seven provinces.
I think will leave further testing of Hayasadan until one of the Devs can shine some light on the problem. At present it is essentially a dud faction since without new government structures it cannot produce units powerful enough to compete in the mid and late game.

Finally - just to clarify in case someone else wants to test, is it necessary to delete the map.rwm file before starting the new campaign?

[joshmahurin]

Yes you need a new map.rwm I believe. I believe I have fixed this issue for the next patch though I forgot to check on the Saka end turn thing. I'll try to look at that today. Shouldn't matter as I believe they are the last faction in turn order anyway.

[Vermin]

I played until I had built up to well past where I had in my previous game. This time I did not get the Pan-Caucasus reforms notification - which is a bit weird since I at least got the message, albeit with no effects, in my previous game. Is it possible that if you get the Satrapy notification events before you complete the PanCaucasian Reforms event that it disable the Pan-Caucasian event from firing?

[Vermin]

I got the reforms to work:
I did change script set counter to "1" as above.
The script did not fire until I had taken Karkathikerta and built a Caucasian Tribal Kingdom (CTK) Hayasadan administration building in it.
I already had Aramvir and 6 other adjacent provinces but Trapezous did not have a Hayasadan administration (other than military administration) building as the building browser shows it cannot have one until it is 12000+ size - whereupon it is eligible for the Royal Kingdom of Hayasadan (RKH), Hayasadan administration. I would note that the RKH building also shows in the Aramvir building browser as being available on reaching 12K pop.
This still left me (prior to taking Karkathiokerta) with 7 provinces and 6 Hayasadan administration (with CTKs) buildings however si the reforms should have triggered earlier.
Anyway, Pan Caucasian reforms did trigger and this gave me the option of building either a Royal Satrapy or a Satrapy in Aramvir and a Satrapy in the other provinces.
I built the Royal Satrapy in Aramvir and this enabled me to build the RKH in Aramvir. Checking the building browser fro Aramvir it showed the Hayasadan administration building progressions as military administration>>CTK>>Satrapy>>Some other strange Hellenic satrapy>>Royal Satrapy>>RKH.
After building the Royal Satrapy I built a few other buildings and then the RKH which replaced the Royal Satrapy building.
In my other provinces I built the ordinary Satrapy building. No other admin buildings were then available (even in Trapezous which had earlier shown the possibility of building RKH). In Karkathiokerta however, the RKH building did appear in the building browser but could not be built.)
The text for the Satrapy/Royal Satrapy referred to building levels of military colonies to obtain your best troops but the only colony types available - Indigenous Military Colonies (IMC) - do not in fact lead to new troop types, nor do any other Satrapal buildings. I built the IMCs to L3 to check.
Although I got the message regarding taking over a Satrapy by Royal control every turn, it was not possible to build a Royal Satrapy in any other province but Aramvir.
Hope this is useful. :)

[Nightshift]

Too bad I haven't read that before now just played a Hay campaign the last four hours
But thx for your efforts I'll change my script right away.

Would Saka need the same fix as I had the same message every turn repeating as mentioned above?

[Vermin]

About the Saka - I don't know - I just followed the suggestion.
However, apart from some new buildings, the Pan-Caucasian Reforms do NOT allow new troop types - which is a bit of a disappointment.
So you will still not get cataphracts, horse archers or better infantry. I will edit my previous post to explain what does happen more clearly for the devs.

[Sarkiss]

About the Saka - I don't know - I just followed the suggestion.
However, apart from some new buildings, the Pan-Caucasian Reforms do NOT allow new troop types - which is a bit of a disappointment.
So you will still not get cataphracts, horse archers or better infantry. I will edit my previous post to explain what does happen more clearly for the devs.

i havent touched Hayastan yet, kind of put off by the reforms, but are you sure that you need the reforms to be able to recruit horse archers at all? for Hayastan, these should be a regular mid -tier unit, nothing spectacular about them at all.

edit: unless you meant cataphract horse archers, that is.

[Nightshift]

No horse archers that I would remember at least not if you don't expand beyond caucasus..
Have'nt been that far. But from the historic descriptions (and EB1) we should have some from the very beginning or am I mistaken here?

[Sarkiss]

No horse archers that I would remember at least not if you don't expand beyond caucasus..
Have'nt been that far. But from the historic descriptions (and EB1) we should have some from the very beginning or am I mistaken here?

Yes, in EB1 that was the concept, iirc, but it was never inplemented: it was easier to get Scythian horse archers, the Armenian ones requiring baracks upgrade. they were also more expensive than the Scythians both in terms of recruitment and the upkeep, iirc.
so you had a paradoxical situation when Hayastan had Scythians as its default horse archers.

you're right though, in EB1 they were considered a regular unit and had no reform-tied restrictions.

[Moros]

The missing units can probably be explained by not having been made yet.