Israel's Plan for its Arab citizens

[Rhyfelwyr]

If I understand it right, Israel really doesn't like their black community much, and even ran a secret program to sterilize black people...

I know quite a few Jews who most def don't see blacks as "real Jews".

I've heard of that but the attitudes of some Israelis don't change the fact that the Israeli state welcomes people from what we would consider to be different racial backgrounds.

Of course the Israeli state is hugely discriminatory, but I wouldn't call it racism in the way we understand it.

[Fragony]

Black jews are mostly from Ethiopia and they absolutily are discriminated, not proper jews.

[classical_hero]

In other news, the Israeli parliament will be voting on a new bill which would formally declare Israel as a Jewish state.



See, this is just . No modern Western state can call itself a true democratic state and at the same time declare itself for a religion. If this bill is passed, Israel will forfeit any claim it has that it is a democratic country.

:lol: You must forfeit lots of other countries for having similar rules that Israel has. I mean Norway, Greece and The UK have similar rules, would you say they aren't democracies? Even the UN resolution for the partitioning of the land called for Jewish state. So I fail to see how this is against what against democracy. Anyway here if the full text of the legislation.
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com.au/...l#.VMPUDKJsa3w

Jews aren't a race, so they're not being racist. Israel is competing for being one of the nastiest, most intolerant regimes on the planet.

Oh, but of course they are only defending themselves and if only the Palestinians would just accept being second rate citizens / subhumans (depending on where they live) everything would be fine and dandy. For the Israelis - but no one else counts, do they?

4 Israelis get killed and outrage - inhuman murderers! c. 2,600 Palestinians killed since the start of the year? Well, that was fine as they were killed by the IDF and so legal (in Israel) so what's the problem?

Of course "Palestinians" get treated differently from Israelis because they aren't citizens. It like saying Canida is and aprthied state because it doesn't treat Americans as citizens.

Do you think it is all right to fire from civilian positions?

Black jews are mostly from Ethiopia and they absolutily are discriminated, not proper jews.

I'm just wondering how last year a black Jew could possibly become Miss Israel last year. I'm not saying the relationship is perfect, but every nation on the planet has these problems, so I do wonder why Israel gets singled out.

[Hax]

I'm just wondering how last year a black Jew could possibly become Miss Israel last year

Anecdotal evidence; the mayor of Rotterdam is a Morrocan Muslim, that doesn't mean that Moroccan Muslims are necessarily well-integrated in the Netherlands.

[Hooahguy]

:lol: You must forfeit lots of other countries for having similar rules that Israel has. I mean Norway, Greece and The UK have similar rules, would you say they aren't democracies? Even the UN resolution for the partitioning of the land called for Jewish state. So I fail to see how this is against what against democracy. Anyway here if the full text of the legislation.
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com.au/...l#.VMPUDKJsa3w

Yeah, and I dont like those either. A little difference between those countries you mentioned and Israel though. The right of return in Israel, and basically how most of the country is run, is directly linked to religion while the others are not. Thats the main problem that I have with this. You dont see the UK or Norway using the state religion (which by the way is more ceremonial than a national identity like it is for Israel) to legalize discriminatory policies.

Of course "Palestinians" get treated differently from Israelis because they aren't citizens. It like saying Canida is and aprthied state because it doesn't treat Americans as citizens.

I mean I guess if you think checkpoints, fences, concrete dividers, and roads they are prohibited to drive on even while under Israeli military occupation isnt really being treated differently considering the circumstances...

Do you think it is all right to fire from civilian positions?

Do you think its right for the IDF to know this fact and still bomb those positions anyways, knowing that vast numbers of civilians will die because of it? Dont get me wrong, Israel has a right to defend itself, but at a certain point I do wonder if IDF leadership is insane.

I'm just wondering how last year a black Jew could possibly become Miss Israel last year. I'm not saying the relationship is perfect, but every nation on the planet has these problems, so I do wonder why Israel gets singled out.

They really shouldnt be, but Ive lived in Israel before and there is definitely a huge problem. Racism is rampant among native Israelis (not so much the immigrants from Europe and North America) towards Ethiopians. Plus the question still exists for some reason whether or not they are even Jewish among the rabbinical elite.

[Tuuvi]

Of course "Palestinians" get treated differently from Israelis because they aren't citizens. It like saying Canida is and aprthied state because it doesn't treat Americans as citizens.

Or it's like saying South Africa was an apartheid state because it didn't treat blacks as citizens.

[HoreTore]

I've heard of that but the attitudes of some Israelis don't change the fact that the Israeli state welcomes people from what we would consider to be different racial backgrounds.

Of course the Israeli state is hugely discriminatory, but I wouldn't call it racism in the way we understand it.

They have different policies for those they consider in-group and those they consider to be the other.

How is that not the definition of institutional racism? Do you have to go all Hitler to be worthy of the term?

[rvg]

How is that not the definition of institutional racism?

It's not racism because you can actually become a Jew. Don't get me wrong, it's a rotten system, but it's not racist.

[Kadagar_AV]

It's not racism because you can actually become a Jew. Don't get me wrong, it's a rotten system, but it's not racist.

Institutional racism isn't quite what you think it is...

See, these days extreme leftists LOVES to attach "racism" to stuff, even if it has nothing to do with races.



You don't like that Somali people cut off half the vagina and clitoris of girls? CULTURAL RACIST!!

You don't give immigrants the exact same rights as your own citizens? INSTITUTIONAL RACIST!!

You prefer to hire a guy who speak the language perfectly and are raised in your culture? SYSTEMATICAL RACIST!!

... The list goes on.

[Furunculus]

Institutional racism isn't quite what you think it is...

See, these days [...] leftists LOVES to attach "racism" to stuff, even if it has nothing to do with races.

You don't like that Somali people cut off half the vagina and clitoris of girls? CULTURAL RACIST!!

You don't give immigrants the exact same rights as your own citizens? INSTITUTIONAL RACIST!!

You prefer to hire a guy who speak the language perfectly and are raised in your culture? SYSTEMATICAL RACIST!!

... The list goes on.

i tend to agree.

the cult of narcissistic hypersensitivity; where you believe you are on a moral crusade to speak out against anything that might offend your favoured 'victim' group.

it starts with taking bad words like "racism" and interpreting them so loosely that dictionary definitions become meaningless in order that they can stamp sanctioned disapproval against people who offend that favoured victim group.

[Fragony]

Wow Tel Aviv, the response of Hamas, they kinda make it hard for themselves, I am kinda angry and I say stupid things when I am angry, and I am totally aware of that so I'll just say nothing at all.What I don't say is not what I don't think though.

[Hax]

Fragony, what are you talking about? Please don't leave us in the dark, I'm not good at hermeunitics.

[Rhyfelwyr]

They have different policies for those they consider in-group and those they consider to be the other.

How is that not the definition of institutional racism? Do you have to go all Hitler to be worthy of the term?

The discrimination is based on ancient Jewish ideas about genealogy, not modern Western concepts of race.

From what I have gathered, the main hostility towards black Jewish groups is not based on the idea that blacks are inferior, but rather a suspicion that these black Jews are not really of Israelite descent.

I think this sort of discrimination based on complex and historical genealogy is a sort of grey area between racism and a basic acknowledgement of family realities. After all, even we in the enlightened West choose whether or not to give citizenship based on more direct genealogy - usually, a child is granted citizenship if one or more of his parents are already citizens, regardless of whether the child is resident in the country at the time. What the Israeli state does is closer to this than racism I would say.

[Kadagar_AV]

The discrimination is based on ancient Jewish ideas about genealogy, not modern Western concepts of race.

From what I have gathered, the main hostility towards black Jewish groups is not based on the idea that blacks are inferior, but rather a suspicion that these black Jews are not really of Israelite descent.

I think this sort of discrimination based on complex and historical genealogy is a sort of grey area between racism and a basic acknowledgement of family realities. After all, even we in the enlightened West choose whether or not to give citizenship based on more direct genealogy - usually, a child is granted citizenship if one or more of his parents are already citizens, regardless of whether the child is resident in the country at the time. What the Israeli state does is closer to this than racism I would say.

So... Historical genealogy - sure...

But not RACISM...


Heck, even I don't deem blacks as generally inferior (they do however seem to excel in some areas and lack in others, just like any other racial and/or cultural group).

I just suspect that blacks are not really of Swedish descent, see, this is where it gets quirky for me to accept them <- Oh come on, be serious. If Israel didn't play "The Jew Card" they would TOTALLY be racist.

[Rhyfelwyr]

So... Historical genealogy - sure...

But not RACISM...

So if Kadagar Jr. gets Swedish citizenship because Mr. & Mrs. Kadagar are Swedish citizens, does that make the Swedish state racist?

As you can see, the lines between family and race are blurred, since race (or at least some concepts of it) is essentially a sort of wider family.

Jewish ideas on genealogy are like I said in a sort of grey area between direct family ties and a wider racial aspect.

Heck, even I don't deem blacks as generally inferior (they do however seem to excel in some areas and lack in others, just like any other racial and/or cultural group).

I just suspect that blacks are not really of Swedish descent, see, this is where it gets quirky for me to accept them <- Oh come on, be serious. If Israel didn't play "The Jew Card" they would TOTALLY be racist.

Israel's has justified their policies on genealogy, not race. You can surmise all you want about their real motivations, but given the depth of their Jewish heritage I'm willing to take what they say at face value.

Is there a difference between what a state does and the actual reality for those who live in it.

Indeed there is, which is why I am talking specifically about the former.

[Fragony]

The discrimination is based on ancient Jewish ideas about genealogy, not modern Western concepts of race.

From what I have gathered, the main hostility towards black Jewish groups is not based on the idea that blacks are inferior, but rather a suspicion that these black Jews are not really of Israelite descent.

I think this sort of discrimination based on complex and historical genealogy is a sort of grey area between racism and a basic acknowledgement of family realities. After all, even we in the enlightened West choose whether or not to give citizenship based on more direct genealogy - usually, a child is granted citizenship if one or more of his parents are already citizens, regardless of whether the child is resident in the country at the time. What the Israeli state does is closer to this than racism I would say.

Is there a difference between what a state does and the actual reality for those who live in it. Black jews are absolutily not treated as equals, they may have the same rights in theory but that is not how they are treated.