Ukraine Thread

[Kadagar_AV]

What date is it? What is Putin's political allegiance?

[Sarmatian]

What date is it? What is Putin's political allegiance?

It is Novmembeber 25th annd Validamiridonenko Putiniatin is still a fascimile.

[a completely inoffensive name]

It is Novmembeber 25th annd Validamiridonenko Putiniatin is still a fascimile.

Well, you at least got the date correct.

[Sarmatian]

Well, you at least got the date correct.

Are you trying to say he's not a fascimile?

Why do you hate freedom?

[Gilrandir]

The fact that they had to resurrect National Guard and that National Guard was involved in pretty much all skirmishes/battles tells me that Kiev doesn't trust the army so much (NG is controlled by the Ministry of Interior Affairs)

1. I don't know what you mean by "resurrection", I repeat: National Guard was called Internal Troops until it was renamed. In fact it is the same Berkut that was on Maidan in winter. Sometimes there were tensions reported between ex-Berkuts and newly recruited volunteers in training camps but once they were on the battle field the tensions were forgotten.
2. Since National Guard is in fact spetznaz and it is more fit for military actions than much neglected, underfinanced and often badly trained army, it is natural that it bears the brunt of fighting. Yet there are some elite army detachments (like paratroopers or marines) which are up to the task, so they are in the thick of fighting as well (for example, in Donetsk airport, Debaltseve and others). There is no trust distinction as you would like to find between different kinds of troops.

It is Novmembeber 25th annd Validamiridonenko Putiniatin is still a fascimile.

His first name in your interpretation sounds like a Ukrainian last name. Perhaps he is a Ukrainian nazi as well?

[CrossLOPER]

His first name in your interpretation sounds like a Ukrainian last name. Perhaps he is a Ukrainian nazi as well?

He is if the exact copy is not which it isn't, but could be if it is, which means it definitely is.

[Sarmatian]

1. I don't know what you mean by "resurrection", I repeat: National Guard was called Internal Troops until it was renamed. In fact it is the same Berkut that was on Maidan in winter. Sometimes there were tensions reported between ex-Berkuts and newly recruited volunteers in training camps but once they were on the battle field the tensions were forgotten.
2. Since National Guard is in fact spetznaz and it is more fit for military actions than much neglected, underfinanced and often badly trained army, it is natural that it bears the brunt of fighting. Yet there are some elite army detachments (like paratroopers or marines) which are up to the task, so they are in the thick of fighting as well (for example, in Donetsk airport, Debaltseve and others). There is no trust distinction as you would like to find between different kinds of troops.

From what I've read, National Guard was formed at the beginning of the nineties and laid to rest by Kuchma in 2000. It was reactivated in March 2014. It is supposed to be a light infantry type of unit, under control of Interior Affairs.

Another big issue are Territorial Defense units, bulk ofwhich was also formed from volunteers post Maidan. They were under control of Interior Affairs as well, until recently when they were transferred to the Army, iirc. Just how big is their composition in the units fighting in the east I really don't know.

It seems that both were hastily assembled as Maidan government has little faith in the army after they surrendered/refused to fight several times.

[Gilrandir]

From what I've read, National Guard was formed at the beginning of the nineties and laid to rest by Kuchma in 2000. It was reactivated in March 2014. It is supposed to be a light infantry type of unit, under control of Interior Affairs.

I don't know what was the nature of the late National Guard, but National Guard 2.0 is just the renamed Internal Troops+volunteers. As to it being light is not ture (at least now). Recently they have been given heavy machinery including tanks and APCs.

Another big issue are Territorial Defense units, bulk ofwhich was also formed from volunteers post Maidan. They were under control of Interior Affairs as well, until recently when they were transferred to the Army, iirc.

The latter is not correct since some of them were transferred to (or originally were within) the Army system, others stayed under the Ministry of Interior and Right Sector battallion is outside either.

It seems that both were hastily assembled as Maidan government has little faith in the army after they surrendered/refused to fight several times.

As I have remarked, the latter is wrong, and I gave the reasons why.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

From what I've read, National Guard was formed at the beginning of the nineties and laid to rest by Kuchma in 2000. It was reactivated in March 2014. It is supposed to be a light infantry type of unit, under control of Interior Affairs.

Another big issue are Territorial Defense units, bulk ofwhich was also formed from volunteers post Maidan. They were under control of Interior Affairs as well, until recently when they were transferred to the Army, iirc. Just how big is their composition in the units fighting in the east I really don't know.

It seems that both were hastily assembled as Maidan government has little faith in the army after they surrendered/refused to fight several times.

Crucial point - the "Maidan Government" is no longer a thing - elections have been held (which the separatists prevented people from voting in) and now there is a new government.

As to revoking benefits for people in "New Russia" you can't have it both ways - right now Kiev is not getting taxes from there and the area isn't operating under Ukrainian Law. If they pay into people's bank accounts in those area etc. then the local "government" can tax those people and use the money to fund the war against Kiev.

So, clearly, paying pensions is not a good idea. It makes neither political nor strategic sense.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

It is November 26th, and Vlad Putin still puts Russia first.

[Brenus]

"It makes neither political nor strategic sense." It does. It clearly indicates you don't consider the other side as your citizens. It is HUGE political mistake, probably of the same size than the will to join NATO, which make Putin's point very more valid, as it is what he was saying from the start. Well done Ukrainian government, you just validate your country's partition.