Duchy of York and Virginity

[Greyblades]

Actual slave or play acting slave? What people role play in bed isnt really scandalous. unless they're saying epstien leant the duke a sex slave I dont see why I should care.

[rory_20_uk]

Beyond claims many years after the alleged incident, is there any proof above finger pointing and geographical location?

I do accept that the level of evidence required regarding such cases would make Salem which hunters cry foul so I imagine the only question is how long they get locked up for.

[Fragony]

Girl could easily go for a 21 year old.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Girl could easily go for a 21 year old.

That line of argument usually begets a quick "guilty" verdict in this country -- though it can soften the sentencing.


The rule is pretty simple: You are an adult, find some way to confirm that your intended bed buddy is as well.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Actual slave or play acting slave? What people role play in bed isnt really scandalous. unless they're saying epstien leant the duke a sex slave I dont see why I should care.

Actual sex slave is what she's claiming

That line of argument usually begets a quick "guilty" verdict in this country -- though it can soften the sentencing.


The rule is pretty simple: You are an adult, find some way to confirm that your intended bed buddy is as well.

You're introduced to a girl at a swanky party by your wealthy friend, she jumps into bed with you. At what point do you ask for ID in this scenario?

[Husar]

ID cards only restrict freedom anyway and should not exist.

[Viking]

ID cards only restrict freedom anyway and should not exist.

You should ask for her driver's license instead. If she doesn't have one, it's OK; since then you couldn't possibly know the age.

[Fragony]

The rule is pretty simple: You are an adult, find some way to confirm that your intended bed buddy is as well.

Can think of better opening lines

[rory_20_uk]

The rule is pretty simple: You are an adult, find some way to confirm that your intended bed buddy is as well.

Simple rule I agree.

1) What is his / her age? What documents are to be accepted? How does one ensure they are genuine?
2) Is he/she able to give consent? This incorporates both alcohol and drugs. So I hope you have a mobile lab to do a tox screen and alcohol levels (best make them serum as well). And let's not forget the tox screen has several substances it does not detect.
3) An official document giving consent for the acts to be engaged with - not that this would cover someone anyway (see point 5)
4) Oh, all the above will need to be independently notified to try and avoid coercion.
5) And of course the other person can change their mind right to the last second of activity, so best have it all recorded to have a independent record.

[Rhyfelwyr]

The points that Rory highlights are the sad and unavoidable absurdities of promiscuity - the only true solution is to return to our traditional Judeo-Christian morals.

[rory_20_uk]

You say that, but of course then one is overlooking marital rape which again can occur. Generally when the other party is out to get you.

I know of one chap who first knew his wife was leaving him when the police came around and arrested him as she'd gone off with the kids. After the police had detained him she could then get back into the house and get the locks changed. Simples!

[Fragony]

The points that Rory highlights are the sad and unavoidable absurdities of promiscuity - the only true solution is to return to our traditional Judeo-Christian morals.

They would be illegal

[lars573]

The points that Rory highlights are the sad and unavoidable absurdities of promiscuity - the only true solution is to return to our traditional Judeo-Christian morals.

That barely ever existed and were never followed by most. And calling for any return to them absurd in the extreme.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Simple rule I agree.

1) What is his / her age? What documents are to be accepted? How does one ensure they are genuine?
2) Is he/she able to give consent? This incorporates both alcohol and drugs. So I hope you have a mobile lab to do a tox screen and alcohol levels (best make them serum as well). And let's not forget the tox screen has several substances it does not detect.
3) An official document giving consent for the acts to be engaged with - not that this would cover someone anyway (see point 5)
4) Oh, all the above will need to be independently notified to try and avoid coercion.
5) And of course the other person can change their mind right to the last second of activity, so best have it all recorded to have a independent record.

I understand your point. It boils down to "if you have any doubt, refuse." Means you have to say "no" because you are unsure, or if you think they have a reasonable chance to be too "potted" to make a clear decision.

That's ethics, not law. You are supposed to refrain if the other person is not capable of participating in the tango/no tango decision equitably.


Rhyf':

You are aware that those Judeo-Christian morals were/are often honored in the breach? Both religions included rituals of atonement/reconciliation precisely because that standard is often unattainable in practice.

[Fragony]

And what if they are? Than it's just the law.

[Montmorency]

JudaeoChristian morality is a primary factor behind the victimization of sex-crime victims. In reality, these crimes are trivial, and only cause suffering because the victims are made to feel unsafe and demeaned. One of the greatest ironies of feminism is that it's success will see the undercutting of one of its chief spurs.

[rory_20_uk]

I understand your point. It boils down to "if you have any doubt, refuse." Means you have to say "no" because you are unsure, or if you think they have a reasonable chance to be too "potted" to make a clear decision.

That's ethics, not law. You are supposed to refrain if the other person is not capable of participating in the tango/no tango decision equitably.

When can one ever be 100% sure? I can not tell the difference between someone who is 15 and even 18 with 100% accuracy (not relevant to me as due to me age 25 would be the absolute floor) and if you're 18 that is important. Since the answer to the question "how old are you?" is not enough this approach is going to be flawed.

It was not just ethics, it was also law - participating is one facet with the other ones being the ability of the other party to cry "rape" and you can say no it wasn't... and that's about it.

Given the risk can be a 14 year prison sentence along with all the fun that involves, even a very low risk is one people would like to mitigate.

To prevent teenage pregnancies contraception can be given out to very young teenagers. This pragmatic approach has proven to be much better than a "morally this shouldn't be required". I would like something equally pragmatic in these cases - personally I'd like clubs when they say 18+ to have the legal blowback if under 18s are in there - then they'd properly check IDs rather than letting in any female who is half dressed.