Duchy of York and Virginity

[Montmorency]

JudaeoChristian morality is a primary factor behind the victimization of sex-crime victims. In reality, these crimes are trivial, and only cause suffering because the victims are made to feel unsafe and demeaned. One of the greatest ironies of feminism is that it's success will see the undercutting of one of its chief spurs.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Rhyf':

You are aware that those Judeo-Christian morals were/are often honored in the breach? Both religions included rituals of atonement/reconciliation precisely because that standard is often unattainable in practice.

I didn't claim that traditional marriage is perfect, but there is no doubt that it helps to avoid many of the problems that Rory raised.

[Kralizec]

If there's enough evidence to indict him, Prince Andrew should have his day in court, too.

That's something that should go without saying, but some are against the very idea. Any takers here?

[Crandar]

Come on, we can't bring the Prince to the court. We will only succeed in making those anarchists that cheered for the death of Baroness Thatcher happy again.

[Greyblades]

So is there anything definite to talk about or are we still at the he-said-she-said blind speculation/royal bashing stage?

The points that Rory highlights are the sad and unavoidable absurdities of promiscuity - the only true solution is to return to our traditional Judeo-Christian morals.

Only if our judeo-christian morals get a much needed update from the 1800-1950's iteration. Islam is not the only religion that has to evolve or die in the 21st century.

[Viking]

So is there anything definite to talk about or are we still at the [...] royal bashing stage?

That stage is plenty good enough for me.

[Tuuvi]

Rhyf':

You are aware that those Judeo-Christian morals were/are often honored in the breach? Both religions included rituals of atonement/reconciliation precisely because that standard is often unattainable in practice.

This is true but I think Rhyfelwyr still has a good point. Mistakes happen but it's a lot easier to avoid the pitfalls of ambiguous consent if you're trying to avoid sex altogether.

JudaeoChristian morality is a primary factor behind the victimization of sex-crime victims. In reality, these crimes are trivial, and only cause suffering because the victims are made to feel unsafe and demeaned. One of the greatest ironies of feminism is that it's success will see the undercutting of one of its chief spurs.

So basically, what you are saying is that if it weren't for Judeo-Christian morality people wouldn't really mind getting raped? That's ridiculous. First of all, ideals of chastity and abstinence before marriage are not just Judeo-Christian constructs, they are/were present in Chinese and Maya culture as well, to give two examples.

And while rape victims do experience feelings of guilt and shame as a result of their perceived loss of virtue, this is not the only cause of suffering. Rape victims can suffer from physical injury, STDs, unwanted pregnancy, and post-traumatic stress disorder. The psychological trauma of rape comes not just from cultural/religious guilt but also from the violent, painful nature of the experience and the complete loss of control to another person. Seriously, sexual crimes are far from trivial, even without Judeo-Christian morality.

[Slyspy]

And while rape victims do experience feelings of guilt and shame as a result of their perceived loss of virtue, this is not the only cause of suffering. Rape victims can suffer from physical injury, STDs, unwanted pregnancy, and post-traumatic stress disorder. The psychological trauma of rape comes not just from cultural/religious guilt but also from the violent, painful nature of the experience and the complete loss of control to another person. Seriously, sexual crimes are far from trivial, even without Judeo-Christian morality.

I'm glad that you challenged that nonsense.

[Montmorency]

Most eminently not nonsense.

"Injury" is why rape should be treated as assault.

[Sir Moody]

So basically, what you are saying is that if it weren't for Judeo-Christian morality people wouldn't really mind getting raped? That's ridiculous. First of all, ideals of chastity and abstinence before marriage are not just Judeo-Christian constructs, they are/were present in Chinese and Maya culture as well, to give two examples.

And while rape victims do experience feelings of guilt and shame as a result of their perceived loss of virtue, this is not the only cause of suffering. Rape victims can suffer from physical injury, STDs, unwanted pregnancy, and post-traumatic stress disorder. The psychological trauma of rape comes not just from cultural/religious guilt but also from the violent, painful nature of the experience and the complete loss of control to another person. Seriously, sexual crimes are far from trivial, even without Judeo-Christian morality.

I think you are misinterpreting Montmorency statement - he was saying Judeo-Christian morality is a key source of the Victim blaming of Rape survivors - how the actual survivor feels will never be different - how society treats the survivor is the difference and we don't have a very good track record in the Christian world (still far better than the Islamic world tho...)

[Fragony]

If there's enough evidence to indict him, Prince Andrew should have his day in court, too.

That's something that should go without saying, but some are against the very idea. Any takers here?

yeah, I dont't think there is anything worth talking about here. A sex scandal sure, but that's for magazines for people who like sex-scandals. I don't see what is wrong with what happened. If it is against the law the judge should decide, but I can't get worked up over this. That changes if she was forced to do it though, but I really doubt she was. Even then, could he have known.

[Montmorency]

For someone who isn't following the affair:

Is this about the letter of the law on age of sexual emancipation, or is the woman in question claiming in particular that she was exploited as a trafficked sex-worker?

If it's the latter, then I'm afraid the age-discussion is a red herring.

[Sir Moody]

For someone who isn't following the affair:

Is this about the letter of the law on age of sexual emancipation, or is the woman in question claiming in particular that she was exploited as a trafficked sex-worker?

If it's the latter, then I'm afraid the age-discussion is a red herring.

Both

She was both under the age of consent and she is claiming she was exploited.

Luckily for the sleazy prince however there is little chance of him facing charges - it is a case of He says She says with the only evidence being they were both at the same place at the same time - with no evidence of hanky panky

Its a shame really as Andrew is a blight on our country and its about time his antics came with more than a slap on the wrist...

[Fragony]

For someone who isn't following the affair:

Is this about the letter of the law on age of sexual emancipation, or is the woman in question claiming in particular that she was exploited as a trafficked sex-worker?

If it's the latter, then I'm afraid the age-discussion is a red herring.

These girls stand in line to be a luxory escort-girl, easy to find ones that are much more atractive, so I really doubt the sex-slave part, if you take a walk in the red-light districts of Amsterdam you will see girls that could as well be supermodels. I really really doubt she was there against her will.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

These girls stand in line to be a luxory escort-girl, easy to find ones that are much more atractive, so I really doubt the sex-slave part, if you take a walk in the red-light districts of Amsterdam you will see girls that could as well be supermodels. I really really doubt she was there against her will.

By law, she was. Her age rendered her, legally, incapable of making such a decision or entering a contract for such a relationship.