Ukraine Thread

[Gilrandir]

Perhaps this one is more for German-speaking audience:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehl-qlqZEgU
Of course, I don't know how serious/unbiased is this "heute show", yet it seems that Russian flagrant propaganda has been finally known for what it is.

[Ice]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-sieg...pol-1422490152

President Obama took a foreign-policy bow during his State of the Union speech last week, boasting that “we’re upholding the principle that bigger nations can’t bully the small—by opposing Russian aggression, supporting Ukraine’s democracy, and reassuring our NATO allies.” Whereupon Russian-backed forces promptly expanded an offensive in Ukraine that has already claimed more than 5,000 lives.

On Saturday the Ukrainian port of Mariupol, strategically located on the Sea of Azov, came under indiscriminate rocket fire from positions controlled by the so-called Donetsk People’s Republic, the Moscow-sponsored militia in eastern Ukraine. Some 30 people were killed in the attacks; another hundred or so were wounded. Aleksandr Zakharchenko, since November the Donetsk Republic’s “Prime Minister,” had earlier promised an offensive against Mariupol, though both his militia and Moscow were quick to deny responsibility for the massacre.

None of this is surprising, though most military analysts expected the rebels to wait until spring before resuming their onslaught. It also underscores the willful disbelief of Westerners, starting with President Obama, who imagined that the combination of light sanctions on Russia and a steep drop in energy prices would force Vladimir Putin to call an end to his Ukrainian adventure.

The opposite has happened. Russia put its name to a cease-fire signed in Minsk last September. Yet by November Gen. Philip Breedlove, NATO’s Supreme Commander, was reporting the movement of “Russian troops, Russian artillery, Russian air defense systems and Russian combat troops” into Ukraine. More recent sightings of “little green men” in insignia-less uniforms suggest the presence of Russian special forces fighting alongside the rebels.

The Kremlin’s likely aim for this latest offensive is to take Mariupol, which would consolidate rebel control over the Donetsk region and provide a better sea link between Russian-occupied Crimea and the Russian mainland. European leaders have lately been warning that Moscow will face a new round of sanctions should the rebel offensive continue. But given the noises French President François Hollande and others have been making about easing up on sanctions, Mr. Putin probably figures he can take Mariupol first and then bargain the West down.

It also doesn’t hurt Mr. Putin that the Ukrainian war has further boosted his popularity—88% approval, according to one opinion poll late last year—despite the economic turmoil. Russian nationalism runs deep, and dictators tend to benefit politically from splendid little wars, at least those they win.

Which is what makes it all the more imperative for the West to ensure that Russia does not win. The Ukrainian military has ringed Mariupol with a three-tiered defense, but a defeat there would put the defense of the rest of Ukraine into serious question. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has repeatedly asked the U.S. to assist his country with arms, but so far the Obama Administration has done nothing more than to offer limited nonlethal aid. Even Hillary Clinton, in postdove campaign mode, wants the U.S. to do more.

We’re all for sanctioning the Kremlin, especially in ways that directly affect Mr. Putin and his inner circle. But if the West wants to stop the Kremlin’s military offensive, military means are also required. Giving Ukraine the arms to defend its territory is the only chance of stopping Mr. Putin’s siege.

[Gilrandir]

Russian parliament is planning to condemn West Germany for annexing East Germany in 1989.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-east-germany/
Apart from being the raving of an sick imagination, how seriuos are the charges? I mean was there any legal procedure of reunification obsereved (like voting by GDR's parliament or something) or was it assumed by default that all East Germans want to lose their country?

[Gilrandir]

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Russi...s-466418.shtml

[Husar]

Russian parliament is planning to condemn West Germany for annexing East Germany in 1989.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-east-germany/
Apart from being the raving of an sick imagination, how seriuos are the charges? I mean was there any legal procedure of reunification obsereved (like voting by GDR's parliament or something) or was it assumed by default that all East Germans want to lose their country?

I think it was assumed that everybody wants freedom, democracy and capitalism. Russia got a boatload of money for letting us have it and then we payed more to clean up the mess they left behind. The place is barely civilized by now and one could make a good case that they never deserved democracy.

[Gilrandir]

I think it was assumed that everybody wants freedom, democracy and capitalism. Russia got a boatload of money for letting us have it and then we payed more to clean up the mess they left behind.

I spoke of LEGAL procedure of re-unification. Was there any?

The place is barely civilized by now

You are jumping to a conclusion too fast, you haven't seen Ukrainian sticks.

[Husar]

I spoke of LEGAL procedure of re-unification. Was there any?

I have no idea, I was five at the time and we didn't learn about it at school. What kind of legal procedure could there be about it? Isn't it inherently a political thing? The previous government of the DDR left and didn't resist, what would lawyers argue about? Whether such a unification was fine according to the DDR's constitution?

You are jumping to a conclusion too fast, you haven't seen Ukrainian sticks.

It was an absolute, not a relative statement and it still stands.

[Husar]

http://www.focus.de/politik/ausland/...d_4438784.html

11.47 Uhr: Im Kampf gegen prorussische Separatisten in der Ostukraine hat die Regierung in Kiew "Abschussprämien" für ihre Soldaten eingeführt. Einem am Donnerstag veröffentlichten Beschluss zufolge zahlt der Staat für ein vernichtetes Fahrzeug der Aufständischen umgerechnet 600 Euro.
Zerstörte Panzer werden mit 2400 Euro belohnt, und für ein abgeschossenes Kampfflugzeug soll es 6000 Euro geben. Zusätzlich will die Regierung den Soldaten für jeden Tag im Kampfeinsatz 50 Euro zahlen. Armeeangehörige klagen jedoch oft darüber, dass der finanziell klamme Staat ihnen den Sold schulde.

11:47 Clock: In fight against prorussian separatists in the eastukraine has the government in Kiew "killrewards" for its soldiers introduced. An on tuesday released decision following pays the state for a destroyed vehicle of the rebels recalculated 600 Euro.
Destroyed tanks are with 2400 Euro rewarded, and for a downshot fighterairplane should it 6000 Euro give. Additionally wants the government the soldiers for every day in fightingmission 50 Euro pay. Armybelongers complain however often about, that the financially tight state them the pay owes.

You should get the point, the Ukrainian government rewards soldiers for destroyed enemy vehicles now and wants to pay them 50 Euros for every day in the war zone. Soldiers however complain that the government still owes them their basic wages in the first place.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I have no idea, I was five at the time and we didn't learn about it at school. What kind of legal procedure could there be about it? Isn't it inherently a political thing? The previous government of the DDR left and didn't resist, what would lawyers argue about? Whether such a unification was fine according to the DDR's constitution?



It was an absolute, not a relative statement and it still stands.

That's actually not an unreasonable question - the DDR would have had to sign something that declared it effectively ceased to exist, as it's constituent states simply became part of the German federation, or whatever you guys call yourselves today.

If the DDR didn't sign itself out of existence legally then you would technically be talking about an annexation with less of a rubber stamp than Crimea.

Also - it is pretty weird, bordering on disturbing, that this isn't taught in German schools given that it's the most important event in German history since the end of World War II.

[Kralizec]

I have no idea, I was five at the time and we didn't learn about it at school. What kind of legal procedure could there be about it? Isn't it inherently a political thing? The previous government of the DDR left and didn't resist, what would lawyers argue about? Whether such a unification was fine according to the DDR's constitution?

The DDR had free elections at the end of its existence, after which the new Volkskammer voted to split the DDR into several smaller entities, which entered the BRD separately as new Länder. I suppose that the vote might have been contrary to the DDR's constitution, I have no idea.

[Hax]

Perhaps this one is more for German-speaking audience:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehl-qlqZEgU
Of course, I don't know how serious/unbiased is this "heute show", yet it seems that Russian flagrant propaganda has been finally known for what it is.

Looks like a German Daily Show tbh.