Sudden drive to make Video Games P.C.?

[Vuk]

Making a game politically correct should never be a priority. You should try to make good, exciting games. Maybe they will end up being considered PC, maybe they won't. It should not factor into the design process.

[Beskar]

I would like more character development in my games other than big busted bimbos and brain-dead muscle men stereotypes which get churned out so much.

There are a few good games which break the mould, and they turn out great, but time and time again, there are some archtypes which make no sense and frankly dumb. Like seeing a medieval RPG where the female character is in a bikini whilst the man is mailed head to toe, it just looks silly.

Now, my opinion isn't necessarily P.C, it is more that I am getting a taste for higher standards.

On amusing note, Anti-PC brigade are hating on Mad Max, because of Imperator Furiosa, a dominant female character, calling it "Mad Max: Feminist Roaderp"... I will just leave it there.

[Vuk]

It is not about political correctness though Beskar. Thief did not have either of those stereotypes, but was not a game that tried to be pc at all.

[Husar]

Isn't everything politically correct that is within the law?

[wooly_mammoth]

The ideas that that Veho Nex mentions are sometimes labelled as pertaining to the social justice crusade, untertaken by social justice warriors. To what extent campaigning for social justice in these absurd circumstances is the same with "political corectness" I don't really know, but I'd just use the terms interchangeably since they always seem to pertain to absurdities.

By taking Beskar's example, I fail to understand why should it ever be a topic if a video game has bikini-mailed babes in it or not. Don't like it, don't buy it. There's no reason to bully other people for it. From my understanding, you can have gay sex with a minotaur in dragon age 3, so lord behold, there's room enough for everyone under our yellow dwarf star.

[Husar]

What is our culture? Are video games part of our culture or not and do you think it is okay if our culture is sexist or racist? Do we want to have a culture that makes women feel forced to puke in order to stay slim and is that better or worse than a culture that makes women wear garbs which cover their entire face? What about a culture that praises the dadbod vs one that praises the muscular man? Why did some men express relief at the dadbod trend thing? Why is it okay to demand that the pope changes his religion according to our society's values but not okay to demand that artists align their art and therefore an equally big part of our culture to our values? And since when has that not happened?

[Vuk]

Funny, I can play Duke Nuke'm and feel like crap because I am fat. It is true that what you praise in society is what people seek to emulate, but doesn't that just mean we should be aspiring to mediocrity. It also doesn't mean that you have to feel bad because you are not perfect. If you do, that is a 'you' issue that you need to get over.
I would rather look like Duke Nuke'm than Nicholas Cage. Is that a bad thing? I would rather look like JC Denton than one of these metro anime guys. Why shouldn't I? We play to be things that we cannot be in real life. Often things we look up to and would like to be, but cannot. Why be mediocre in a video game when I can just be mediocre in real life?
When art has high standards it causes people to strive to imitate those high standards. Nothing wrong with that.
As far as the over used bimbo stereotype, I agree that it is in poor taste and highly over used. People want their fantasies, and there is nothing wrong with that. Game makers just have to realize that there is a significant portion of the game playing population who do not want to see that. It has nothing to do with being politically correct though. It is just that my fantasy woman looks more Kate Archer and less like Laura Croft. Likewise, there are many woman out there who would rather fantasize about being Katie Archer than Miss Croft.
Political Correctness does not belong in video games. And you know what? People should have a right to offend you. If someone comes out with a game I find offensive (like Grand Theft Auto), I will simply not play it. Boy, that was easy. No feeling like crap because I am not a gangsta playa!
Live and let live.

[Ironside]

You have been sniffing around in the Backroom Veho Nex? Anyway, to answer, the debate has been there earlier, but due to GG it's been catapulted to less specific sources and a wider audience.

What is our culture? Are video games part of our culture or not and do you think it is okay if our culture is sexist or racist? Do we want to have a culture that makes women feel forced to puke in order to stay slim and is that better or worse than a culture that makes women wear garbs which cover their entire face? What about a culture that praises the dadbod vs one that praises the muscular man? Why did some men express relief at the dadbod trend thing? Why is it okay to demand that the pope changes his religion according to our society's values but not okay to demand that artists align their art and therefore an equally big part of our culture to our values? And since when has that not happened?

I'm gonna start here, since Husar stole my examples.

The original point are that media influences our outlook on how we see the world and ourselves in it. Husar is pointing out a few examples where you can see the effects of it.

The issues is not so much that they get presented as super humans, as it is that it's the only representation. Those super humans becomes the perceived normal. And if super is the new normal, most people won't reach up to it. But since it also only are a problem as an agglomerate, the criticism will also be general, since the examples by themselves aren't that much of a deal.

I find this whole "politically corect" concept so irrational and unsensical I can't even formulate an opinion on it. Why should this topic even exist when discussing art and entertainment, be it movies, videogames or books? I see at as an advanced form of bullying. I've never heard anyone complain that commercials for all sorts of pointless products show ripped men or very attractive women in scant clothing, but suddenly it's a problem if I want to play a game where I control a half-naked babe running around and delivering pain.

That's because you haven't been listening, or rather not been reading those places that has the debate. But it'll come up any time anorexia is talked about for example.

Also, films with ripped shirtless guys in the middle of the action are fine, but for some reason it's forbidden to have an attractive woman in a similar predicament.

The general difference is that men are often depicted as a power fantasy, while the woman is depicted as a sex fantasy (sometimes you see characters that are both). And that often in the same game. There's usually a significant difference in body language, poses and camera/image focus between the two. I could go through this in detail using say Frank Frazetta images if you like to. He's very NSFW, but liked to draw both genders with very little clothing, so he's a good example. Not that much on male gaze though. He didn't use it much or often.

Another one worth mentioning, I read a couple of days ago something most surreal: some guy complained in a review of Witcher 3 that all humans are white. Wow. o.O

I'm going to guess that the reviewer was American, since white washing is more of an issue there. Any they're prone to think English speaking=American. That said, if you want to be picky, making a medieval pseudo-European setting without any blacks are less accurate than them being rare.

Perhaps, it is the contrary - the games are a productfied view of someone's alter ego fantasy. If they weren't they wouldn't sell. It would seem in a parallel world we are willing to pay to picture ourselves as strong, ripped men, or buxom females. Perhaps because in the real world it has become more and more difficult to attain those ideals.

Also, I reckon justifying someone's ability to leap from a rood and not injure themselves permanently is easier if they are athletically fit. A 400lb wastrel would only ever be able to do it the once. Same with scaling buildings, or spending 40-60h sprinting through the landscape. You'd get fit if you weren't to begin with!

In general, the men are over buffed and the females too unmuscular to be fit for the acts the do. It's an ideal body, rather than the fit body that would endure what occurs in a realistic-ish game.

Making a game politically correct should never be a priority. You should try to make good, exciting games. Maybe they will end up being considered PC, maybe they won't. It should not factor into the design process.

Yeah. The thing is that very few politically correct things are limiting the ability of making good, exciting games (some story lines needing more care are probably the most influential). If you factor it in during the design process, you'll end up with about the same amount of work as well. It's a deliberate effort to make games non-pc. Some issues can occur unintentionally (the Witcher 3 all humans are white are an example of that), but most are intentional.

By taking Beskar's example, I fail to understand why should it ever be a topic if a video game has bikini-mailed babes in it or not. Don't like it, don't buy it. There's no reason to bully other people for it. From my understanding, you can have gay sex with a minotaur in dragon age 3, so lord behold, there's room enough for everyone under our yellow dwarf star.

If not liking it starts to cut you out from the majority of the market for no real reason, you can sort of question exactly who is bullying who here.

[wooly_mammoth]

Why is it not okay to demand that artists align their art and therefore an equally big part of our culture to our values? And since when has that not happened?

I don't know Hus, your questions make me wonder if there was a cry of outrage in the Hellenistic world at the idealized physiques sculptors depicted in their works. Maybe my view is too simplistic, but I simply can't see this issue. Whenever something like this comes up all I see is someone with a serious lack of something better to do with his/her time bashing away at others for no reason. Don't like ripped shirtless guys, bikini mail or gay minotaurs? Well, just don't go there, it's not like you are being forced to.

Ironside mentioned anorexia. I'm pretty sure this problem was around way before video games became really popular (or had bikini-mail, for that matter). If you want to point the finger at someone for this, I'd guess it's the fashion industry, but I haven't seen people put as much effort into bashing that as into getting extra clothing on a chick on some videogame box that doesn't sell more than some hundred thousand copies (at best, and mostly male consumers anyway). Faces photoshopped to perfection on various commercials you see on tv or strewn on posters through the cities hit a much larger audience than some half-naked chick in a videogame, but again, I don't see people bashing that in any consistent way.

Examples like this really make me question the motives behind social justice warriors and advocates of political correctness in videogames. I can't believe they're trying to solve a problem by attacking where it doesn't exist.