British Election: peaceful revolution

[Gilrandir]

Reductio ad absurdum and/or completely missed the point?

Funny you don't find your slave exmple reductio ad absurdum.

My argument was that not everyone profits just because a lot of people have work and you name the examples of people who may actually profit too much from it compared to a lot of others who you previously used to justify the high prices of sports merchandise. That Schweinsteiger makes too much money does not help any of the children who have to produce the tricots for 10 cents an hour in some asian village so that some corporation can sell them for 80 bucks or whatever inflated price they cost.

My point is that any enterprise gives work to some people and at the same time inconveniences/disadvantages other people. While Beskar claimed that sports has no positive input whatever into the welfare of a country.

[Husar]

Funny you don't find your slave exmple reductio ad absurdum.

It was meant to showcase a much broader point that just having work does not necessarily mean you benefit from it.
I wasn't even sure whether your point was one, that's why I said "and/or" and put a question mark behind the entire thing, but you are free to ignore that of course.

My point is that any enterprise gives work to some people and at the same time inconveniences/disadvantages other people. While Beskar claimed that sports has no positive input whatever into the welfare of a country.

And my point was that sports is one of the prime examples of the rich exploiting everyone else. Even the players themselves are not good examples for rich people as many of them lack the education to hold on to their wealth for long after their retirement and get stripped of their wealth by hawkish people. So in the end they are often just exploited as well. Also consider that professional sportsmen often demand so much from their bodies that they get health problems in the medium or long term. The US NCAA does also not pay their players and pretends to pay them with education while it signs them up for fake classes where they hardly get educated.¹ Meanwhile the league rakes in millions from advertising and merchandise etc. They get a few years of a good time and lots of promises and then often end up as poor as they began. Some also don't of course, but I'm also convinced that some of the money spent on all the sports stuff would advance our societies more if it were spent elsewhere. It's great that it makes people happy and it shouldn't be banned or abandoned, it's the way it is commercialized and the way people are exploited all around it that should be changed.
Whether it has an effect on the welfare of the country is debatable. If most of the wealth created ends up with rich people who invest it to drain even more wealth from the middle class then it probably just advances our wealthy elites.

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[Gilrandir]

It was meant to showcase a much broader point that just having work does not necessarily mean you benefit from it.

Like I said: not neccessarily "you", but someone surely does. Sometimes the number of those "someone" is so great that whether "you" benefit doesn't matter (on the national scale).

And my point was that sports is one of the prime examples of the rich exploiting everyone else.

Any business that attracts so many consumers does it by default. So we might as well be indignant at the rich exploiting others by means of arms production, modern gadgets manufacture, chocolates or movie making... The list is pretty long, so there is no need to be especially hard on sports. It is the way modern world works and I don't see any prospects that it might be otherwise.

I'm also convinced that some of the money spent on all the sports stuff would advance our societies more if it were spent elsewhere. It's great that it makes people happy and it shouldn't be banned or abandoned, it's the way it is commercialized and the way people are exploited all around it that should be changed.

I'm sure if you do that to sports those who invested the money into it will find other ways of "exploiting the others". This money will not find its way into your or my pockets.

If most of the wealth created ends up with rich people who invest it to drain even more wealth from the middle class then it probably just advances our wealthy elites.

This is the way business is run: one can never stop making money and say "nuff'z'nuff". Business thrives as long as it expands and takes what profit it can wherever it sees it. To change it one's gotta change the whole philosophy of the society of consumption, which is again what isn't gonna happen in the foreseeable future.

[Husar]

So how about we try to find a way to stop people from exploiting others and fix sports in the process?
I didn't know that I was especially hard on sports, I said it's a good example, but that doesn't mean it is the only example.
And the change isn't going to happen in the foreseeable future if everybody denies that it will happen and just gives up.
As Americans will surely tell you as well, change is brought about by those brave enough to attempt it against all the odds, it's the American way.

[Gilrandir]

So how about we try to find a way to stop people from exploiting others and fix sports in the process?
And the change isn't going to happen in the foreseeable future if everybody denies that it will happen and just gives up.

Starting exploiting others was starting the modern civilization as we know it today. To stop it one has to undo millenia of development. I don't think it is possible. And railing against it and demanding fair play is like crying foul that Norway doesn't get as much sunshine and warmth as California.

[Sir Moody]

Starting exploiting others was starting the modern civilization as we know it today. To stop it one has to undo millenia of development. I don't think it is possible. And railing against it and demanding fair play is like crying foul that Norway doesn't get as much sunshine and warmth as California.

100 years ago the idea Europe could peacefully coexist was considered impossible.
200 years ago the idea Slaves would ever be treated equally in the US was unheard of.
1000 years ago the idea the common man could pick their leader and not just except the noble who held his land was unthinkable.

Things change - they change by railing against them and demanding change.

[Gilrandir]

100 years ago the idea Europe could peacefully coexist was considered impossible.
200 years ago the idea Slaves would ever be treated equally in the US was unheard of.
1000 years ago the idea the common man could pick their leader and not just except the noble who held his land was unthinkable.

Things change - they change by railing against them and demanding change.

Exploitation exists much longer than the dates you mentioned. It is so deeply entrenched in minds, social instututions and business that if you start railing today the results will not be felt in the foreseeable future.
And as for people picking up their leader - this forum is most pessimistic about the picking up pointing that in fact there is no choice and all of them are the exploitators (or nominated by the exploitators to protect their interests). Only now they get elected rather than seize the power by force.
Anyway, the world without exploitation was attempted in Russia 100 years ago - the results were lamentable.