Unhappy Carthaginian player

[Barry Soteiro]

Hello !

I'm disappointed with what happened to the Carthies.

Long gone are the EB1 days were I smashed puny Roman with my Elite African Phalanx flanked by Elite African Infantry.
I captured towns with a combination of Elite Libyphenician and Iberian Assault Troops.

What is the plan for the next release ??? Please do something for Baal's sake

[QuintusSertorius]

Hire mercenaries, like Carthage would have done. There's mercenary Phalangitai, who are pretty handy and plenty of Celts and Iberians.

[Ibrahim]

Hello !

I'm disappointed with what happened to the Carthies.

well, yeah, half a million dead is a tragedy, but it's been millennia since 146 BC. What do you want us to do?

Long gone are the EB1 days were I smashed puny Roman with my Elite African Phalanx flanked by Elite African Infantry.
I captured towns with a combination of Elite Libyphenician and Iberian Assault Troops.

You do realize the mod is:

1-not complete (and was never announced as such)?
2-there's new and better research available regarding the equipment--you'll see the full results in the future?
3-QuintusSertorius is right: hire mercenaries--it's what they really did back then?

[Shadowwalker]

Hello !

I'm disappointed with what happened to the Carthies.

Long gone are the EB1 days were I smashed puny Roman with my Elite African Phalanx flanked by Elite African Infantry.
I captured towns with a combination of Elite Libyphenician and Iberian Assault Troops.

What is the plan for the next release ??? Please do something for Baal's sake

Heya Barry,

Being fascinated by the Qart Hadashtim myself for a long time, I played two long campaigns with them in EB II yet (both 300+ turns).
They have one of the most complete rosters so far.
I do understand your plea for their elite troops, of course (although I've never come across any clear source that the Elite Phalanxes were used much, to be honest) - but at the moment they are one of the most fun factions to play in EB II.

Just use an army like this to be prepared for almost anything the AI throws at you:

1 general
3 Libyan Spearmen
4 Liby-Phoenician Infantry
1 Sacred band Infantry
1 Libyan Skirmishers
1 Numidian Skirmishers
1 Numidian Infantry
1 Maure Infantry
1 Numidian Archers
1 Balearic Slingers
1 Numidian Cavalry
1 Iberian Light Cavalry
1 Iberian Medium Cavalry
1 Liby-Phoenician Cavalry
1 Sacred Band Cavalry

If you have the money, add in a unit of elephants (as replacement for one of the light cavalry units) and/or replace some of the Libyan/Liby-Phoenician Infantry with mercenary phalanxes.

That is a good (yet a bit expensive) "eastern" army, in Iberia you have various iberian spear-/swordmen you can use instead of the Libyans. Once you enter Gaul there's plenty of celtic troops to add even more variety.

And then there is one general thing about the Carthaginians: they didn't use factional troops often. For example: during the hundreds of years of warfare in Sicily they used citizen armies only a couple of times. They relied on mercenaries, mercenaries and ... more mercenaries for the most part of their history. Just do the same in your campaign.

In my second campaign with them I never used more than 6 recruited units in any army, the bulk of my armies were mercenaries.

You don't even need phalanxes to be honest. Your cavalry rules the battlefields of Europe. (The Near East would be much different, all those heavy bodyguard cavalry units would probably waltz over you, but which sensible Carthage general would lead an army to - for example - Asia Mikra? )

What is especially interesting about a Carthage campaign is the fact that you are - while potentially the richest and most secure faction in the west - in danger throughout the whole campaign. In the first 100 turns you will most probably have to face the Massylians (therefore the EB I "strategy" of not having any troops in North Africa after the conquest of the coast provinces is not recommended at all anymore) and the Areuakoi/Lusotannan (although you can get an alliance with the Lusos if your offer is good enough), the Romans will sooner or later attempt to grab the island provinces/Sicilia from you, whichever faction holds Massilia/Tolosa (usually Aedui in my campaigns) will go for the Baleares and Corsica/Sardinia, too ... and you should not neglect the Ptolemaioi, either, although the somewhat depressing inevitable EB I Sand Wars can be avoided with clever diplomacy.

The building tree is rich in options, the colony system is a long-time motivator, the units themselves are stunningly beautiful (and versatile) etc etc etc

So, again: while I'm looking forward to for example the Iberian Assault Infantry myself (one of my absolute favourite units in EB I), I don't agree that the lack of a handful of late-game units is a serious problem for the Carthaginian campaign to be fun.

If you want to play a faction that feels incomplete, try Getai (who don't even have a real bodyguard by now, using a low-tier spearman unit for their family members) or to a lesser extent Sab'yn (they are a lot of fun nevertheless!).

And generally - just have patience. At the moment there are "only" about 40% of the planned units in game, the other will follow over time.
(Although the EDU doesn't list heavy Liby-Phoenicians or Heavy Libyans so those two might not appear at all in EB II).

[QuintusSertorius]

One slight tweak I'd apply to any Carthaginian armies (at least before the Mercenary War): regionality. The Carthaginians liked to transport their mercenaries away from their "home" location, so you'd have a preponderance of Iberians and Celts in Africa, and a preponderance Africans and Celts in Spain. The reason for this was a belief they'd be less likely to find common cause with the native population and foment rebellion against Carthaginian rule.

[kdrakak]

I am almost tempted...

[Moros]

If you want to play a faction that feels incomplete, try Getai (who don't even have a real bodyguard by now, using a low-tier spearman unit for their family members) or to a lesser extent Sab'yn (they are a lot of fun nevertheless!).

I'm sorry.

On a positive note, three factional tribal units are set on the to-do list (which will give much more difference between choosing for tribal or "imperial" government trees), two of which will feature a late upgrade. The bedouin units (mercs and widely avaible regionals) are also on the shortlist. Yes this includes a camel unit. Sadly it will be unlikely that our shortlist will be finished off for the next release (the summer release). With some luck some Arabian units might make it in though we will see.

[Shadowwalker]

I'm sorry.

Stupid me.
Reading your answer I first wondered what you are apologizing for, then I re-read my words which you quoted .... and now I feel the need to apologize myself.
That statement about the "incomplete feel" of some factions was not meant as a complaint in any way, not at all. I'm dearly sorry if it came over as such.

What I tried to say was that the Sab'yn lack access to some of the units (like the Red Sea axemen or some cavarly other than the Horse Archers - the awesome Ethiopian Cavalry for example) that were pretty crucial for any Sab'yn campaign in EB I.
"a faction that feels incomplete" is therefore a wrong term - I should have said "a faction that lacks crucial units in my personal opinion", especially since the units/the battles are - while being an important part of any TW game - not necessary the decisive part when it comes to how a factions feels to play.

Sab'yn are - together with Hayasdan and Carthage - actually my favourite faction in EB 2 so far (same as in EB 1).

I thought that my following words "(they are a lot of fun nevertheless!)" had made clear that my intent was not to discard any of the effort and love to detail that went into the arabian factions.


Well, in the future I shall re-read twice instead of once before posting. Bloody stupid language barrier!


EDIT: Thank you for the hints about the future releases. Interesting stuff.
EDIT 2: A camel unit! Gods, I can't express how much I'm looking forward to such!

[Gododdin O'Ceallagh]

Having sorted my problem thanks to help from Quintus and playing a Carthage campaign I can see why one may miss the depth of variety of units and the late game units. If we are only seeing 40% of the units then I can't wait for the completed mod. Currently playing as Hayasdan and enjoying it, strangely the Seleucids have left me alone and we're well over 100 turns in.

GO'D