The pissing contest over the flag deflected from the courage of convictions demonstrated by the victims:
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinion...the-south.html
But I guess it "wouldn't really count" as a tragedy w/o the media drawing blood somewhere.
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
The pissing contest over the flag deflected from the courage of convictions demonstrated by the victims:
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinion...the-south.html
But I guess it "wouldn't really count" as a tragedy w/o the media drawing blood somewhere.
Ja-mata TosaInu
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
I got a warm, fuzzy feeling after reading that. I don't know if I would have been able to forgive.
Part of the warm, fuzzy feeling, though, is that a small part of me thinks that this is the ultimate defeat for the shooter. He tried to incite violence and he failed. Now he just a sick a-hole who's gonna spend the rest of his life seeing people through a little hole in the door.
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
Thanks for posting this. It jives with my numbers over the years as well.Originally Posted by Veho Nex
It is infuriating that these stats are ignored.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
The Saltire cross/battleflag of N. Virginia is not the "stars and bars". You should know this.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
Nearly every star placed on "Old Glory" got there by the blood of butchered Native Americans, who were systematically stripped of their lands, rights, and dignity; by the blood of exploited railroad & mining workers; by the grief and tears of all those swindled out of their savings by corrupt banks and real estate barons; and by just about every imaginable way that human beings can take advantage of others to fatten their wealth. Don't see anyone calling for its removal from government buildings....I'm not sure how the Stars and Stripes holds up under the same standard. Certainly ethnic cleansing, and arguably all out genocide, is on the same level as slavery or worse. Nothing about the current rush to purge all symbols of the Old South stands up to even basic intellectual scrutiny... It's just reactionary populism.
The Rebel flag has come to mean different things for different people since the Civil War. It can certainly connote racial hatred when used by groups like the KKK, etc. My experience has been that the Stars & Bars is simply an expression of personal rebellion. In my college days, one could find the Rebel Flag at student protests, not because we believed in slavery but because we perceived ourselves as rebels fighting against a higher authority. I've also found it to be far more prevalent in rural settings, where folks would really prefer governmental intrusions be kept to a minimum. It's all too easy to point fingers at the stereo-typical tobacco-chewing, gun-toting, whiskey-drinking, truck-driving Southerner, and forget about all the more benign uses of it that have absolutely nothing to do with slavery or racial hatred.
Government buildings are an inappropriate place for it, as are any items, like auto plates, that can be identified as government regulated. But this ridiculous attempt to purge it from monuments, toys, and even video games is not only asinine, but insanely hypocritical when one scrutinizes America's past......
High Plains Drifter
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
You can't be serious.
People have been complaining about the overrepresenation of blacks in prisons for years, how are these stats being ignored?
Blaming the victims of the societal/institutional racism is a typical racist butthole tactic.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
When the flag was resurected post war that's what it was tied to. Lees own flag was different but the stars and bars was carried as a part of his army. I didn't realize we were giving out medals for pendantry.
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
Especially when it's in response to 9 people getting murdered by a white supremacist.
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
Speaking of race motivated attacks...
How many blacks kill whites, compared to how many whites kill blacks in the USA?
The perp seem to have some "ill adviced" (is it?) idea that the real problem with terrible race motivated attacks are blacks attacking whites...
Any numbers to prove him wrong?
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
According to FBI, 83% of white people murdered are killed by white people.
EDIT: you also have to be careful with "race motivated attack" - not every black on white or white on black murder is race motivated. This obviously has been by the killer's admission.
Last edited by Sarmatian; 06-28-2015 at 21:41.
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
Yeah, that was not what I asked though, was it...
How many BLACKS kill WHITES compared to how many WHITES kills BLACKS...
I mean, if we are going to discuss racial hate crimes, that should be a factor, no?
I am not at all surprised that blacks mainly kill blacks and whites mainly kill whites... Just like I am not surprised that blacks like to live with and have black friends like whites like to live with and have white friends...
My QUESTION was: When the groups meet... What is the comparison between whites killing blacks and blacks killing whites?
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
That fails on several levels:
1) interracial murder doesn't have to be connected with racism.
2) laws of average mean white people are more likely to be victims, since there's 7-8 times more numerous. Like in China, if there's a murder, the victim will most likely be a Chinese.
3) the statistics don't show the whole story, as the numbers used are numbers for arrests, not convictions.
4) like everywhere else in the world, poverty has to be taken into account...
and many different things.
But, the answer to your question, according to the FBI is:
Whites murdered 189 blacks in 2013
Blacks murdered 409 whites in 2013
If you adjust it for the difference in numbers, you're much more likely to be killed by a white if you're black than by black if you're white.
But, those number are meaningless since we don't know how many of those murders are due to racism.
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
But wait...
If blacks killed around 400 whites...
And whites killed around 200 blacks...
Do you mean the vast majority of the US is black these days? Or what?
Last edited by Kadagar_AV; 06-29-2015 at 03:20.
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
I've already explained this. Due to how statistics works, x vs y, crime will be the same as y vs x crime, no matter how small or large x is compared to y. That's without any other factors.
So Swedes (or whatever minority you can think of) living in America will murder Americans in about the same numbers as Americans murder Swedes (whatever minority).
The general murderer rate among blacks is higher than 2x compared to whites.
Basically, a black murderer will target a white guy less than random (or whites targets blacks more than random).
Not seen in that particular data set (but seen in data in the picture given by Veho), but both black and white murderers attack over the race barrier less than randomly. It's way more pronounced to not attack over the race barrier in the case of black people.
Last edited by Ironside; 06-29-2015 at 21:30.
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
Ok... But still...
It's like what? 5 times? 8 times? More likely to be killed by a black guy if you are white, than by a white guy if you are black?
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
The before mentioned source by Samartian - Source
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
Looking more closely I realised they put whites and south-americans in the same group.... So counting purely westerners, the numbers would actually be even more condemning for the blacks, then?
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
Your racial definition is very American, Kadagar, compared to European definition. Just an observation.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
How are south americans not westerners?
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
Interesting... How so?
Sorry, just tried not to overdo the "white" thing... South Americans are not white, if that makes you feel better :)
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
And if we count only those truly of Aryan race, the numbers would be even more condemning.
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
Because it is oversimplified where they see 'whites' 'blacks' 'Browns' 'Reds' and 'Yellows' as homogeneous groupings based purely on skin tone. As such, Spanish people are not white as those south of US are 'brown inferiors' from Mexico, etc.
European definition is more distinctive with Slavs, Nords, Saxons, Aryan, Celts, etc far more groupings based on ethnicities, basically.
Both are rather hogwash in terms of actual differences since there is more variance within groups than between genetically, but that is a different point entirely.
Last edited by Beskar; 06-30-2015 at 08:13.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
Well, perhaps the majority, but white latin americans even have a wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Latin_American
Around 33% are whites, I'd call that a significant percentage of whites.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
True...
A Scandinavian economist once said to Milton Friedman, ‘In Scandinavia, we have no poverty’. Milton Friedman replied, ‘That’s interesting, because in America, among Scandinavians, we have no poverty, either’. Indeed, the poverty rate for Americans with Swedish ancestry is only 6.7 per cent: half the US average (US Census).
The 4.4 million or so Americans with Swedish origins are considerably richer than average Americans, as are other immigrant groups from Scandinavia. If Americans with Swedish ancestry were to form their own country, their per capita GDP would be $56,900, more than $10,000 above the income of the average American.
It should be noted that those Swedes who migrated to the USA, predominately in the nineteenth century, were anything but the elite. Rather, it was often those escaping poverty and famine.
I see people from Spain as culturally being rather close to me... But in the US, if I understood it right, "hispanics" are of south american lineage?
I must honestly say I'm not very concerned with South Americans though... I can only speak from those I have met, and those immigrants I have seen in Sweden. And they are as a rule hard working family oriented people. Some macho culture, but I can live with that.
It's really only Arabs and Blacks I see as problematic... I wouldn't mind living for a while in a "South American" area here in town... I sure as hell wouldn't want to live with the arabs or blacks though.
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
I would not like to live in the Projects regardless if the locals were black / white / Asian / other.
I would be happy living in a wealthy gated community of the locals were black / white / Asian / other.
I'm pretty colour blind when I'm being robbed / stabbed / shot. America has managed to ensure that the inequalities of the 1800/1900's have not been rectified and so yes the odds ratio of danger can be stratified by race but frankly nurture has a large part to play.
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
You are more likely to get robbed/stabbed/shot though, arabs and blacks are always on the top of the list no matter the circumstances.I would not like to live in the Projects regardless if the locals were black / white / Asian / other.
I would be happy living in a wealthy gated community of the locals were black / white / Asian / other.
I'm pretty colour blind when I'm being robbed / stabbed / shot. America has managed to ensure that the inequalities of the 1800/1900's have not been rectified and so yes the odds ratio of danger can be stratified by race but frankly nurture has a large part to play.
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
How many rich arabs and blacks have been arrested for these things in western countries lately?
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
None as far as I know. I know what you are trying to say, but my clothes aren't nearly as expensive. I got a few Armani-shirts and Prada-shoes but I don't wear these all the time. For some it's just a lifestyle.Grab what you can and get what you want.
Last edited by Fragony; 06-30-2015 at 18:54.
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
I was trying to say that if the problem is inherent for blacks and arabs, as some seem to say, how come that only the poor ones seem to end up in jail while the rich ones don't? Are the rich ones not really arab/black or what? Aren't a whole lot of the white people in jails also poor? So the one thing that most criminals have in common is that they're not from the gated communities for rich people and yet some want to think it's a race thing.
At the point where you say they are poor because the whites won't give them jobs and the whites won't give them jobs because so many of them are criminals, you just turned it into a self-fulfilling prophecy/vicious circle that originated with the racism of the past which was responsible for pretty much all of them starting out poor in the first place.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: Another terrible race motivated attack.
Heh, the big boys are usually liquidated before they can go to jail, especially in Amsterdam it's getting pretty insane, AK's are way too easy to get. But you are right of course about poverty being a vicious circle. But I wouldn't dismiss the gang-culture as a factor
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