Shogun vs Shogun 2

**ReluctantSamurai** · 12-15-2015, 10:58

Why did battles last so long and how could the fortunes change so much?

Not every battle was like that...just the epic ones. Kill rates were much, much lower...unlike RTW where battles could often be over in 10-15 minutes. Reinforcements did not arrive on the battlefield all at once. On normal unit size, you got a max of 960 men...more if an ally participated. When facing down 4 or 5000, you would see 4-6 waves and each wave would take time to assemble (if you were defending) or jump immediately into battle (if you were the attacker).

Fortunes could change depending on when a particular Daimyo arrived on the battlefield (Daimyo's were not necessarily in the first wave). An elite general like Kenshin or Shingen could tip the scales dramatically if the outcome was in doubt. The onset of bad weather in the middle of the battle could change things for better or worse. Thunder storms in Shogun were THUNDER STORMS, not the drizzly mist you got in RTW. If you can play the game on your rig, fire up the historical Battle of Okehazama. Now that's a thunderstorm. The arrival of fog could change fortunes depending on whether you were attacker or defender.

As defender, you could afford to get "trappy" because the AI played like it didn't know where your troops were (even though it has to in reality) and sent mounted troops to locate you... often separating its forces. Likewise, as the attacker, you had to do the same kind of search. Dense fog was the absolute best weather to assault a bridge. You could lure the AI into moving too close to the bridge, thereby bringing its troops into range of your arrows or guns. You could bum-rush Ashi across and slip your better troops in behind if the AI was too far away to see you right away.

in rtw, rain definitely makes ranged units & siege gear less effective, extreme weather makes units tire faster

All I can say is play one in bad weather, then the other. There is a noticeable difference, and not just the graphics.

I did want to drop in nonetheless and give a big round of applause to Yesugey for his 4 year old necro, impressive.

Other than the Backroom, the org isn't exactly a hot bed of discussion these days, so....

Routine false dilemma in my opinion

Meaning.....

**Yesugey** · 12-15-2015, 11:49

Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

Not every battle was like that...just the epic ones. Kill rates were much, much lower...unlike RTW where battles could often be over in 10-15 minutes. Reinforcements did not arrive on the battlefield all at once. On normal unit size, you got a max of 960 men...more if an ally participated. When facing down 4 or 5000, you would see 4-6 waves and each wave would take time to assemble (if you were defending) or jump immediately into battle (if you were the attacker).

Even without 4000-5000 troop numbers and reinforcements, it was still quite hard to understand who is going to win the melee. Your troops wavers.. Then stops.. Then again.. Your front collapses at some of the flanks.. And sometimes you actually win a battle by rallying your troops. That almost never happens in games later tham RTW.

Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

The onset of bad weather in the middle of the battle could change things for better or worse. Thunder storms in Shogun were THUNDER STORMS, not the drizzly mist you got in RTW. If you can play the game on your rig, fire up the historical Battle of Okehazama. Now that's a thunderstorm. The arrival of fog could change fortunes depending on whether you were attacker or defender.

Ah, I also noticed the Thunder Storms last time I played! You cant see what's ahead of you from the mist, the rain is like hell.. And the sound of the thunder... Shogun TW has actually a dark soul as a game, not colorful like other TW games. Insanely bloody Ninja movies are also an evidence.

**Vanya** · 12-22-2016, 18:15

Gah!

Vanya has pondered this question for many moons. But alas, the smell of gunpowder has distracted Him of late. Vanya shall endeavor to contemplate the deeper questions buried under the veneer of this intrinsic question while meditating on the mountaintop after His mornin' raids.

Gah!