Rise of The Snake Cult [Concluded]

[Visor]

End of Night Three

Three corpses! A nightmare.

Cuthillius was killed!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Town

Landlubber was poisoned!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Town

El Barto was killed!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Mafia

Alive: 12/20
1. Jarema
3. Golden1Knight
6. Zain
8. edse
10. Raith Kemmler
13. Al Sipsclar
14. Winston Hughes
15. Nightbringer
16. Autolycus
17. Cass
18. Johnhughthom
19. Severing viper

Dead: 8/20
11. Beskar, lynched D1, town.
9. Csargo, killed N1, town.
5. seireikhaan, lynched D2, mafia.
20. Scarlett Aria, killed N2, town.
2. GeneralHankerchief, lynched D3, third party.
12. El Barto, killed N3, mafia.
4. Cuthillius, killed N3, town.
7. landlubber, poisoned N3, town.

48 hours for day.

[Golden1Knight]

Wanted to follow up with this -

@Golden1Knight is this the post you were referencing here? What's your current read on Al Sips and Cuth?

I believe that Al is aligned to town, keeping in mind solely his vote, after all he helped to lynch a mafioso (which is not definitive evidence, of course). I still need to investigate his posts to make a deeper analysis.

About Cuth, well, he died. Also, I imagine what killed El Barto and why he avoided any suspicion so far.

[Jarema]

El Barto mafia???

[Zain]

Wow 3 deaths... I can't help but suspect that SeveringViper may be scum. Al isn't clear off my radar either, but I do smell Lurker-scum.

Vote:SeveringViper

[Nightbringer]

Alive: 12/20
1. Jarema
3. Golden1Knight
6. Zain
8. edse
10. Raith Kemmler
13. Al Sipsclar
14. Winston Hughes
15. Nightbringer
16. Autolycus
17. Cass
18. Johnhughthom
19. Severing viper

Day End Vote Histories:

Day 3
5 GH (Edse, Jarema, Al Sips, JHT, Cuth)
1 Edse (Auto)
1 Zain (Landlubber)
1 JHT (GH)
1 Al Sips (Zain)
2 Sev (Winston, Al Sips)
1 Auto (El Barto)

Day 2
2 Al Sips (Scarlett, Golden)
1 Edse (Jarema)
2 Scarlett (Khaan, edse)
1 Night (Zain)
1 Jarrema (Auto)
1 Golden (RK)
3 JHT (GH, EB, land)
4 Khaan (WH, Al Sips, JHT, Cass)

If we say that mafia did not vote themselves in the days since day 1 (when it is so random as to be a safe bet and an insurance policy, at least in this meta), then we can come up with this list. I'm hazarding the guess on mafia not voting eachother since there has been plenty of votes being thrown onto a variety of targets which helps leave space to sneak not following the pack on a fellow scum.
Green is voted for or voted against by known scum. Teal is voted for GH, which it appears skum would think was voting for their own.

Alive: 12/20
1. Jarema
3. Golden1Knight
6. Zain
8. edse
10. Raith Kemmler
13. Al Sipsclar
14. Winston Hughes
15. Nightbringer
16. Autolycus
17. Cass
18. Johnhughthom
19. Severing viper

Additionally, looking through the history on Al and EB, they have just been at loggerheads too much for me to think they would practically speaking be mafia buddies.

Also, looking at posts #284 - 292 EB seems to have been making attempts at throwing JHT and auto under the bus to save khaan, and also throwing some doubts at GK as well, making them all seem safer to me.


So, GK, Zain, Raith, Myself, and Viper

I dont know if that means anything, but it's good to remember.

Also, I think El Barto, Scarlett (khaan voted for her) and everyone who voted for Khaan are town. Plus, Edse voted along with Khaan, but this is not a definitive evidence. Yet it is something to watch out.

Golden has some posts that feel a bit reactionary and worried, but I think this finger point straight at EB when there wasn't even a real movement against him is pretty salvaging.


There is some interesting information from a while back that is either an indication that both zain and winston are mafia buddies and really playing a gambit, or is useful regarding zain.

Zain, whilst by no means proven innocent, is not responsible for the murder of Scarlett Aria.

Zain feels genuinely a bit befuddled and overwhelmed, as I am. Based on these, I feel reasonably safe about him.

As to Raith, it just doesn't feel like mafia to me the way he and EB went on at the start.

Kill speculation doesn't usually bear fruit in my experience. Especially in a closed set up. Maybe he looked like a Detective playing it low? Maybe not, but's it's tricky to figure out why mafia do things. If you've got a great explanation that helps frame someone's role, that's good, but just wondering is usually a mindless spiral. The mafia could have literally rolled the dice for all we know.

In this place, mafia do roll the dice for their kills in the beginning, but then people roll dice for their D1 vote and N1 actions.

I support this.

And why don't you vote for Nightbringer then?

Note to self: Do not insult Khaan.

Or vote for him. Or suggest his votes are unfounded. Or say that his former username was better. Or… well, just to play safe, play on another server and use TOR to connect.

You don't look like a pigeon.

I think Scarlett is still confused about how vote changing works.
Self demonstration: removing my vote from Cuthalious
Unvote

What?

It should say ‘whom’, not ‘who’.

Commitment scares me. Also reading the thread and looking for a better lead. But good for a default.
I support this.

You can always unvote.

I thought you were making a Good Feathers cartoon reference.
I support this.

Maybe I was…

Explanation:
(…)
I support this.

Kay. I'm gonna put her into solid town then for now.
No, wait, what?

I know I'm innocent, but can't really prove it.

So we're left with viper, who has been very inactive.

Let's see what barto has had to say about him.

I'm really torn about General. His posts sound reasonable, but I don't like his D1 vote and tunneling on JHT.
However, I'd rather lynch SV or Nightbringer over GH.
Vote: SeveringViper

I'll repeat myself then. Why and why? (well, with 20/20 hindsight I can definitely assure you that GH is not town)

Too blatant of an attempt to sway things towards myself over viper, or trying to make sure his inactive buddy isn't the inactive being targeted? After all, having a new player who may get nervous while being mafia be staged as an inactive isn't a bad strategy.

Also, his one substantial post here (I'm sick of nested quotes...) really reads like he knows exactly what has been happening in thread (even if some of the meanings of things are unclear to him). Knowing what's going on without really commenting is often a tell of a fake inactive to me.

So, for the time being.
vote: severingviper

[Jarema]

I like your analysis. I will vote: Zain

[Raith Kemmler]

Vote: GoldenKnight

Golden has some posts that feel a bit reactionary and worried, but I think this finger point straight at EB when there wasn't even a real movement against him is pretty salvaging.

Disagree. With Elly flipped as mafia, the joint effort GH and him put into switching the lynch candidate when GoldenKnight rocketed into contention makes him look terrible. In fact, it's so blatant I'm worried I'm tunneling on this issue and missing some other misdirection. But the simplest explanation would be saving GK, who really hasn't given us anything substantial all game.

El Barto mafia???

Honestly the least surprising of the three reveals to me. Sorry for not trusting you LL! Hope to game again soon. [/QUOTE]

@Winston: NP, will give a lean post later today.

[johnhughthom]

Cass is lock town. As is El Barto now that GH flipped scum, based on the D1 vote.

This is why you never use day one votes as evidence in an org game

Vote: Golden1knight

[Raith Kemmler]

Why Golden Knight needs to die Part 2: Expanded Edition

I made a lengthy post on Day 2 pushing for GK to die. What follows looks ever so dirty. GK pushes past the meandering 1 and 2 vote wagons into the lead. And the dislike is palpable.

Brothers in negligence? I don't think they're coördinating anything.

Barto plays dumb and asks a bizarre interpretive question. Probably to try to taint the whole case.

Well, we'll see. Given that edse claims he was attacked, not all inactives can be mafia… well, it's unlikely.

Not even a real defense here, more a defense by association. Golden Knight isn't evil because...not all actives are. Duh.

It seems that I dug my own grave. That's what I get for coming out of the shadows lol

Golden1Knight is lynched. He was town.

Golden goes all maudlin in the thread.

And if Golden ain't scum…? btw thanks for making the waggon slightly more irreversible..

Elly begs the obvious question whenever you lynch like, anyone. Also gets a bit frustrated the wagon is taking off.

This post is all kinds weird even in this mafia hive of commentary.

For the record I don't like this lynch.

Evil Other Faction does not like this lynch. For Reasons!

Counterwaggon on either auto or jht, whichever you prefer…?

Which inactive townie would you prefer to kill on this fine day?

My vote's already on JHT. auto's going to be more responsive to game flow. JHT is going to be JHT.

Let's kill that guy. He hasn't posted a lot. The town won't question it.

Then unvote; vote:johnhughthom.

Sure. Die JHT. Die!

btw, landlubber, as third on the bandwaggon, you're obviously mafia.

Elly subtexts to alleviate pressure about obvious vote turn around.

In conclusion: Golden Knight needs to die.

[El Barto]

Go scum.

[Golden1Knight]

Excellent arguments. In your place I'd also vote for me.

It's funny to see how all the evidence points to me, really looks like a solved case. However, I'm sorry to disappoint, but this game does not end with my death. I don't know why GH and El Barto decided to protect me, I'm not aligned with the mafia. But now to business.

Nightbringer worked hard to clarify the overall situation and, since the Mafia benefits from chaos and confusion, I believe that he is townie.

Raith seems a bit clean too, since he would not need all this work to get a mislynch. Yet I'm still not sure about it, as a last mafia he would feel greater need to establish himself as townie, especially after Nightbringer's post.

Zain and Severingviper: they deserve a little more attention. Then, I'll vote: severingviper. I still think we should not waste this lynch with me anyway, but it just makes me look even guiltier. Oh well :P

[Raith Kemmler]

It's funny to see how all the evidence points to me, really looks like a solved case. However, I'm sorry to disappoint, but this game does not end with my death. I don't know why GH and El Barto decided to protect me, I'm not aligned with the mafia.

Are you GH's third party buddy then? And he convinced Elly to go along with it? I will change my vote if you can give me another explanation for that weird ass vote moment. It can't just be a frame job on you, that's a lot of risk with little reward. So either they were protecting you, or getting something else. Or they just like to run around changing wagons because they really didn't feel good?/sarcasm

Raith seems a bit clean too, since he would not need all this work to get a mislynch. Yet I'm still not sure about it, as a last mafia he would feel greater need to establish himself as townie, especially after Nightbringer's post.

However, I'm sorry to disappoint, but this game does not end with my death.

Uh, okay. Who said anything about the game ending with your lynch? How on earth did you come to the conclusion we've reached endgame at all with a revealed third party probably infiltrating the mafia in a closed set up?

Is there an ironclad mafia ratio on the org? Or does this thought look like a bizarre assumption to anyone else?

[Nightbringer]

Are you GH's third party buddy then? And he convinced Elly to go along with it? I will change my vote if you can give me another explanation for that weird ass vote moment. It can't just be a frame job on you, that's a lot of risk with little reward. So either they were protecting you, or getting something else. Or they just like to run around changing wagons because they really didn't feel good?/sarcasm





Uh, okay. Who said anything about the game ending with your lynch? How on earth did you come to the conclusion we've reached endgame at all with a revealed third party probably infiltrating the mafia in a closed set up?

Is there an ironclad mafia ratio on the org? Or does this thought look like a bizarre assumption to anyone else?

There isn't an ironclad ratio, but 4 mafia in a game this size does feel about right. 5 would be 25% of the player base.

[SeveringViper]

Long post:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So we're left with viper, who has been very inactive.

Let's see what barto has had to say about him.

However, I'd rather lynch SV or Nightbringer over GH.
Vote: SeveringViper

I'll repeat myself then. Why and why? (well, with 20/20 hindsight I can definitely assure you that GH is not town)

Too blatant of an attempt to sway things towards myself over viper, or trying to make sure his inactive buddy isn't the inactive being targeted? After all, having a new player who may get nervous while being mafia be staged as an inactive isn't a bad strategy.

Or maybe pushing Al about the reasoning for his vote to seem like engaged town? Have you also considered his having in mind to make me, a seeming inactive who probably won't note/respond to the defense, look bad by association should he die?

Also, his one substantial post here (I'm sick of nested quotes...) really reads like he knows exactly what has been happening in thread (even if some of the meanings of things are unclear to him). Knowing what's going on without really commenting is often a tell of a fake inactive to me.

(Well, maybe nested quotes wouldn't be such a pain if you could quote them instead of having to manually set them up? -~-) So, what do you mean by fake inactive? Someone who knows what's been happening but has nothing to say? But then there's this:

Zain feels genuinely a bit befuddled and overwhelmed, as I am. Based on these, I feel reasonably safe about him.

So you clear someone for seeming "genuinely a bit befuddled and overwhelmed" (and Zain seems to have had a clear idea of where he wants to go, at least, as I will point out next), yet you suspect me for showing I'm "keeping up without really commenting" which, as far as I understand, is pretty close to what makes you like Zain? Or would you say you like someone flailing over just not bothering to talk about what they don't know? (I'll also note that as of this post, our post numbers are equal, for what it's worth. ^^)

As for Zain, he starts off with his first serious (or semi-serious) post by voting Night for inactivity. (Is that why you called him confused? ) Then he says he won't be around that much, which would serve as his reason for the low number of posts:

Though it's hard for me to be very active during this holiday season

And his next two posts are:

I'm not lurking on purpose if I am...

Just want to be helpful, I just can't keep up. It's like y'all know rules and strategies I haven't heard of so I'm learning.

Then later, he comes back to me, but decides to ignore me as inactive and having little to look at. He then adds this:

So I weigh my options, and I feel that activity may be an easy cover-up for scum. I know in the past playing Mafia in person, when I was scum it was easy to fool everybody by obviously drawing attention to myself.

But:

That being said, inactivity is both scummy and intriguing, therefore for the time being...

Vote: Nightbringer

So you consider inactivity scummy enough to vote someone for it early, but later on, you suggest scum would more likely be active?
Then he votes Al based on "instinct"...or perhaps, being one of the three highest posters that isn't his scumbuddy and voteable by the logic he just used.

Finally:

Wow 3 deaths... I can't help but suspect that SeveringViper may be scum. Al isn't clear off my radar either, but I do smell Lurker-scum.

Vote:SeveringViper

So he "can't help but suspect me", going back to lurkers being scummy in the process, while leaving himself open to go after Al again later. Also, Al is still on his radar due to the previously mentioned "instinct", I take it?

In summary, he takes clear positions...that he switches between, and mainly pushes people for inactivity (besides for one unexplained suspicion/vote on Al) despite claiming that he feels scum would easily hide in activity, which he at the same time appears to use to justify suspecting Al. I would say he seems more likely to be somewhat inactive and confused scum, trying to get a mislynch or two with some decent doublethink.

Vote: Zain
If he flips scum, perhaps Nightbringer is next...

[Al Sipsclar]

Bummer about El Barto. Interesting that I got answers for all the three I was unsure about.

This is why you never use day one votes as evidence in an org game

I like the posts today. I'll Vote: Zain for the moment. I can also support Golden's lynch. I feel better about SV now that he's posting.

[Nightbringer]

Long post:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Or maybe pushing Al about the reasoning for his vote to seem like engaged town? Have you also considered his having in mind to make me, a seeming inactive who probably won't note/respond to the defense, look bad by association should he die?

(Well, maybe nested quotes wouldn't be such a pain if you could quote them instead of having to manually set them up? -~-) So, what do you mean by fake inactive? Someone who knows what's been happening but has nothing to say? But then there's this: So you clear someone for seeming "genuinely a bit befuddled and overwhelmed" (and Zain seems to have had a clear idea of where he wants to go, at least, as I will point out next), yet you suspect me for showing I'm "keeping up without really commenting" which, as far as I understand, is pretty close to what makes you like Zain? Or would you say you like someone flailing over just not bothering to talk about what they don't know? (I'll also note that as of this post, our post numbers are equal, for what it's worth. ^^)

As for Zain, he starts off with his first serious (or semi-serious) post by voting Night for inactivity. (Is that why you called him confused? ) Then he says he won't be around that much, which would serve as his reason for the low number of posts:
And his next two posts are:


Then later, he comes back to me, but decides to ignore me as inactive and having little to look at. He then adds this:

But:

So you consider inactivity scummy enough to vote someone for it early, but later on, you suggest scum would more likely be active?
Then he votes Al based on "instinct"...or perhaps, being one of the three highest posters that isn't his scumbuddy and voteable by the logic he just used.

Finally:
So he "can't help but suspect me", going back to lurkers being scummy in the process, while leaving himself open to go after Al again later. Also, Al is still on his radar due to the previously mentioned "instinct", I take it?

In summary, he takes clear positions...that he switches between, and mainly pushes people for inactivity (besides for one unexplained suspicion/vote on Al) despite claiming that he feels scum would easily hide in activity, which he at the same time appears to use to justify suspecting Al. I would say he seems more likely to be somewhat inactive and confused scum, trying to get a mislynch or two with some decent doublethink.

Vote: Zain
If he flips scum, perhaps Nightbringer is next...

So I'm not going to claim my logic is flawless, but you just devoted an entire body of a post to defending yourself and then used that to throw a vote at zain, with me listed a convienient fallback if you are wrong. That is exactly what I mean, you seem exactly informed enough to defend yourself competently WHEN NEEDED, but not informed enough to be throwing your opinions out there otherwise. Now, I'm no genius, but that is more of a tell than I am picking up elsewhere.

[SeveringViper]

So I'm not going to claim my logic is flawless, but you just devoted an entire body of a post to defending yourself and then used that to throw a vote at zain, with me listed a convienient fallback if you are wrong.

...But that's not what it is? Look it it again, and tell me how much is my defending myself and how much is my building a case against Zain, with my noting that Zain flipping scum (so I'd be right) might not look good for you? Or do you disagree with what I said about your seeming quiet defense of Zain?

That is exactly what I mean, you seem exactly informed enough to defend yourself competently WHEN NEEDED, but not informed enough to be throwing your opinions out there otherwise.

And how much did I need to defend myself? I'm not exactly the only one being voted today, and there's no reason that I couldn't just jump onto the GoldenKnight lynch. Instead, I made a case for a vote wagon of my own. Drawing attention by pushing my own case outside of the way town is going is only acting to defend myself? I'm not throwing out my opinions by doing that?


On another note, I missed this curiosity before:

I like your analysis. I will vote: Zain

....Nobody was going after Zain when you posted that? Whose analysis are you talking about? Night's, in which he claimed to read Zain as (confused) town?

[Golden1Knight]

Are you GH's third party buddy then? And he convinced Elly to go along with it? I will change my vote if you can give me another explanation for that weird ass vote moment. It can't just be a frame job on you, that's a lot of risk with little reward. So either they were protecting you, or getting something else. Or they just like to run around changing wagons because they really didn't feel good?/sarcasm

I highlighted the correct answer. I'm just a townie, not even third party, if I claimed such a thing maybe I would be able to fool you for some time and try avoid death, but to claim to be third party is like asking to be eliminated by both town and mafia. In Pirate Ship III we had an excellent example of fake role, which went unnoticed until the end of the game, but this is a case apart and required some skill and experience.

Uh, okay. Who said anything about the game ending with your lynch? How on earth did you come to the conclusion we've reached endgame at all with a revealed third party probably infiltrating the mafia in a closed set up?

Is there an ironclad mafia ratio on the org? Or does this thought look like a bizarre assumption to anyone else?

In the last two games (and the only ones in which I participated), there were only three mafia.

[Winston Hughes]

Zain went nowhere again last night.

[Winston Hughes]

Raith's case on GK is decent enough, but I'm sticking with vote: SeveringViper for now. I just can't see a town mind at work in his posts, whereas GK is giving at least a passable impression.

[edse]

Excellent arguments. In your place I'd also vote for me.

It's funny to see how all the evidence points to me, really looks like a solved case. However, I'm sorry to disappoint, but this game does not end with my death. I don't know why GH and El Barto decided to protect me, I'm not aligned with the mafia. But now to business.

Nightbringer worked hard to clarify the overall situation and, since the Mafia benefits from chaos and confusion, I believe that he is townie.

Raith seems a bit clean too, since he would not need all this work to get a mislynch. Yet I'm still not sure about it, as a last mafia he would feel greater need to establish himself as townie, especially after Nightbringer's post.

Zain and Severingviper: they deserve a little more attention. Then, I'll vote: severingviper. I still think we should not waste this lynch with me anyway, but it just makes me look even guiltier. Oh well :P

The tone in this message sounds very scummy to me, so it's my gut feeling to Vote: Golden1Knight.

Damn you Winston, I had a perfect tally coming up.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

3 SeveringViper: Zain, Nightbringer, Golden1Knight
3 Zain: Jarema, SeveringViper, Al Sipsclar
3 Golden1Knight: Raith Kemmler, johnhughthom, edse

3 No Vote: Winston Hughes, autolycus, Cass

Current tally
4 SeveringViper: Zain, Nightbringer, Golden1Knight, Winston Hughes
3 Zain: Jarema, SeveringViper, Al Sipsclar
3 Golden1Knight: Raith Kemmler, johnhughthom, edse

2 No Vote: autolycus, Cass

[SeveringViper]

Raith's case on GK is decent enough, but I'm sticking with vote: SeveringViper for now. I just can't see a town mind at work in his posts, whereas GK is giving at least a passable impression.

An easy thing to say, care to elaborate?

[Winston Hughes]

An easy thing to say, care to elaborate?

You seem disinclined to make declarative statements. Almost everything's phrased as questions, but very little of what you're saying is genuinely interrogative.

I see this as scummy in two complementary ways: firstly, it's a form of softening, like you're shying away from saying anything that you might be pulled up on; secondly, it's like you're trying to do an impression of scumhunting, rather than actually doing it.

More than that, though, I'm trusting my gut on your general tone, and the flow of your contributions over the course of the game so far.

[SeveringViper]

You seem disinclined to make declarative statements. Almost everything's phrased as questions, but very little of what you're saying is genuinely interrogative.

I see this as scummy in two complementary ways: firstly, it's a form of softening, like you're shying away from saying anything that you might be pulled up on; secondly, it's like you're trying to do an impression of scumhunting, rather than actually doing it.

More than that, though, I'm trusting my gut on your general tone, and the flow of your contributions over the course of the game so far.

...What? I made a case against someone and declared my intent to lynch with a vote. The most I have in there are rhetorical questions, because that's the nature of the piece, an accusation, not an interrogation. And you realize you're making a subjective argument anyway, based on your standards of what is or isn't interrogative? At least define them. Quote what lukewarm questions you have in mind and explain.

There are actually ways you can challenge me over that post, can you detect them? :3 I was the first to make a real case against Zain, against the flow of votes, that's not scumhunting? It's shying away from taking a position?

Ok, so you admit (or claim) you're relying on gut feelings. Whatever you wish.

[Zain]

I find it funny that now, of all times, after 3 deaths and now some heat has fallen on SV, now he has chosen to get real active and start playing the game. I mean, there's always some desire to defend yourself but you've gone 0 to 60 lately my friend. Real suspicious, lurker-scum, imho.

[SeveringViper]

I find it funny that now, of all times, after 3 deaths and now some heat has fallen on SV, now he has chosen to get real active and start playing the game. I mean, there's always some desire to defend yourself but you've gone 0 to 60 lately my friend. Real suspicious, lurker-scum, imho.

Again, this talk of my defending myself. I will repeat, the "heat" on me was lukewarm at best, and that certainly wasn't my motivation. But feel free to keep pushing it. Are you trying to distract from my actually making a push against you?

[Winston Hughes]

That your questions are rhetorical is exactly why I find them scummy, SV.

Also, I have to wonder why you're sticking by your vote on Zain after I revealed that he stayed home again last night. I mean, he's not lock clear, but I'm pretty dubious that you really think your case on him is better than the one Raith has on GK, even after my revelation.

[SeveringViper]

That your questions are rhetorical is exactly why I find them scummy, SV.

Also, I have to wonder why you're sticking by your vote on Zain after I revealed that he stayed home again last night. I mean, he's not lock clear, but I'm pretty dubious that you really think your case on him is better than the one Raith has on GK, even after my revelation.

But the point I was making was that they weren't supposed to be interrogative, they were part of a case I was making.

And the fact that he didn't go anywhere isn't conclusive. Have you considered that he might be the one scum who didn't submit an action?
Yet I don't think my case is that much better. And in fact, I'd rather avoid my mislynch most of all.
Vote: Golden1Knight Now the votes are tied. @autolycus; @cass; Would you like to tip the balance?

[Winston Hughes]

Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention: I think I've been poisoned.

(I wasn't told so explicitly, but I have been informed that I have symptoms which sound like the result of poisoning).

[Raith Kemmler]

Or maybe pushing Al about the reasoning for his vote to seem like engaged town? Have you also considered his having in mind to make me, a seeming inactive who probably won't note/respond to the defense, look bad by association should he die?

Seems elaborate.

Viper, you might want to also publish a leans list at this point. Half of your posts coming out today when a case was pushed against you makes you look dirty.

There isn't an ironclad ratio, but 4 mafia in a game this size does feel about right. 5 would be 25% of the player base.

Thanks.

Zain went nowhere again last night.

Cool. Zain's looking like the town Thoreau to me.