IMMIGRATION thread

[Brenus]

"Atheists are free to disagree I guess." Only about the bases of your sentence. I don't need a big man on a cloud to be human.
I shall pass on the French comment that shows how much clues our USA friend has in understanding France, so to say Europe. As much as I know, all countries have de facto laws on clothing, under various reasons i.e. decency, safety, and all the catalogue.

So is it Europe responsibility? Some could say that with economical treaties imposed to others countries Europe is creating the economical refugees, with the civilisation and capitalistic mode based on consumption Europe creates the conditions of climate changes which will put populations on move, due to desertification, droughts, raising of seas levels etc... How many flooding in Bangladesh before the inhabitants decide that too much is too much.
We do as well attack a lot of others countries, deciding for them how to behave, then creating all the conditions for warlords to come and to put populations in the move.

So, no, it is not Europe responsibility to welcome refugees. It is Europe responsibility to stop its participation in creating refugees.

[Pannonian]

"Atheists are free to disagree I guess." Only about the bases of your sentence. I don't need a big man on a cloud to be human.
I shall pass on the French comment that shows how much clues our USA friend has in understanding France, so to say Europe. As much as I know, all countries have de facto laws on clothing, under various reasons i.e. decency, safety, and all the catalogue.

So is it Europe responsibility? Some could say that with economical treaties imposed to others countries Europe is creating the economical refugees, with the civilisation and capitalistic mode based on consumption Europe creates the conditions of climate changes which will put populations on move, due to desertification, droughts, raising of seas levels etc... How many flooding in Bangladesh before the inhabitants decide that too much is too much.
We do as well attack a lot of others countries, deciding for them how to behave, then creating all the conditions for warlords to come and to put populations in the move.

So, no, it is not Europe responsibility to welcome refugees. It is Europe responsibility to stop its participation in creating refugees.

Isolationism is the way to go, except where it's necessary to trade for resources. Apart from oil, I want absolutely nothing to do with the Muslim countries. They can have the country they want without interference from us, and we should stamp on any interference from them.

[Kralizec]

….

I’ll clarify that I think legitimate refugees do deserve shelter. The problem isn't really the number of Syrians or Eritreans coming here. The real problem lies with the people who have no justifiable reason for trying to claim asylum, but try to cheat the system.

At the same time, the fact that a person has fled his home country because of war or repression shouldn’t give him an unqualified right to settle wherever he pleases. Ideally Europe and Turkey would come to an understanding about:
- improving the conditions of refugee camps in Turkey
- cutting off the smuggling routes to Europe
- resettlement of a fixed number of confirmed refugees from Turkey, and maybe from Jordan
- distributing these refugees fairly across Europe (and that includes less wealthy countries like Poland, which would not be the first choice of most refugees)

[wooly_mammoth]

^To the above I would add an obligation for the refugees to integrate in the country in which they are settled, i.e. respect the local laws and customs, learn the local language, get a job or stick to whatever the integration services find for them, send their children to school. People who fail the above points should get a one-way ticket back to whatever miserable place they ran from and be banned from ever entering the E.U. again.

[Pannonian]

^To the above I would add an obligation for the refugees to integrate in the country in which they are settled, i.e. respect the local laws and customs, learn the local language, get a job or stick to whatever the integration services find for them, send their children to school. People who fail the above points should get a one-way ticket back to whatever miserable place they ran from and be banned from ever entering the E.U. again.

Hang on. Doesn't this infringe the human rights of these refugees/migrants to travel to wherever they wish?

[Sarmatian]

Hang on. Doesn't this infringe the human rights of these refugees/migrants to travel to wherever they wish?

It doesn't have to if it is an agreement. You wanna stay, you've gotta accept those terms for a defined period of time.

We all have guaranteed freedom of movement, but that doesn't forbid our employers to keep us at our workplace for 8 hours a day.

[Husar]

Actually it's Europol, not Interpol, just saying.

[wooly_mammoth]

Hang on. Doesn't this infringe the human rights of these refugees/migrants to travel to wherever they wish?

As far as I know every country in the world has the right to deny entrance to foreigners deemed undesirable for reasons like terrorist activities. If you want to travel to a country that requires a visa and they have a half-decent secret service, if they discover you were taking courses on how to detonate yourself in crowded places back in your youth, that's constitutes a pretty strong reason to deny your request.

Something like that should clearly be extended to asylum-seekers. The country where you are seeking refuge is making you a favor and giving you a chance at a better life, helping you integrate in a better society than the one you left behind on the expense of the people living there. If you cannot respect that and the responsibilities it implies and you go around harassing the locals, molesting women and other such horrible things, then there's no reason in the world why you shouldn't be kicked out and banned from ever entering again in that country. If the country happens to be in the EU, where there's a broad range of customs and laws shared among the member states, there's no reason not to make the interdiction EU-wide. No need to exhibit your primitive limitations in front of others yet again, with the same result.

[Gilrandir]

Since the UK (and Ireland) aren't part of Schengen, we still have our border controls.

Thank the Channel for it, not your border control.

Atheists are free to disagree I guess.

Americans won't, because in God they trust.

….
Ideally Europe and Turkey would come to an understanding about:
- improving the conditions of refugee camps in Turkey
- cutting off the smuggling routes to Europe
- resettlement of a fixed number of confirmed refugees from Turkey, and maybe from Jordan

This. And I would add one more:
- redirecting the immigration torrents to the closer countries (both geographically and culturally/confessionally).