May you live in intersting times

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I thought the EU had already collapsed after the Greek crisis, or the Spanish Crisis, or the Italian Crisis? No? What about the Portuguese crisis? Surely it collapsed in one of those already? ;)

It's not a case of one collapse killing the EU, it's crisis after crisis gradually whittling away at the foundations.

If you look back eight years to 2008 you can see that after each crisis the EU is just a little bit worse off, a little bit less "in this together".

It took the better part of a thousand years for Rome to fall, we shall not be so lucky.

[Husar]

I don't like the advertisement in the title.

It took the better part of a thousand years for Rome to fall, we shall not be so lucky.

Everything was slower back then, you couldn't even buy a game, then pay and receive it right away from a country 6000km away. You also couldn't travel to a country 6000km away in 6-7 hours. You also couldn't buy and sell shares of a company 20 times within one single second, or rather, have a machine do that for you...
And the water you drank and the fish you ate back then didn't contain as much plastic either.
We have become so much faster at destroying things by now, just ask Hiroshima and Nagasaki or the cellphone someone replaced for a newer model after a year.
On the bright side, our GDP is also much larger than that of the Romans and we take better care of the unmployed and (most of) our slaves.

[Fragony]

Can you fix the advertisement for me please, I can only edit posts

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I don't like the advertisement in the title.



Everything was slower back then, you couldn't even buy a game, then pay and receive it right away from a country 6000km away. You also couldn't travel to a country 6000km away in 6-7 hours. You also couldn't buy and sell shares of a company 20 times within one single second, or rather, have a machine do that for you...
And the water you drank and the fish you ate back then didn't contain as much plastic either.
We have become so much faster at destroying things by now, just ask Hiroshima and Nagasaki or the cellphone someone replaced for a newer model after a year.
On the bright side, our GDP is also much larger than that of the Romans and we take better care of the unmployed and (most of) our slaves.

All true, but you know exactly what I meant.

The fall of Rome, like the the fall of the EU, was a long drawn-out process and nobody realised it had happened until centuries later.

Snowrabbit may think the EU "hasn't fallen" because he looks at each individual event and nobody says after "well, EU's dead now". What he doesn't appreciate is that the EU is tilting towards its end, and will fall if the tilt is not corrected.

[Snowhobbit]

All true, but you know exactly what I meant.

The fall of Rome, like the the fall of the EU, was a long drawn-out process and nobody realised it had happened until centuries later.

Snowrabbit may think the EU "hasn't fallen" because he looks at each individual event and nobody says after "well, EU's dead now". What he doesn't appreciate is that the EU is tilting towards its end, and will fall if the tilt is not corrected.

Philippus Flavius Homoerectus might think that the UK is as strong as ever. What he doesn't appreciate is that the union of the United Kingdoms is tilting towards its end, and will fall if the tilt is not corrected. Ireland is gone, Scotland is trying to open the door to leave and Wales might not feel there is much in it for them anymore.

[Greyblades]

Enjoying the pre-referendum jitters are we?

The Scots are seeing with the Oil price drop how screwed they'd be if they had voted yes and they have at minimum 20 years before they get another go. Northern Ireland is still experiencing the afterglow of being the most loyal province in the empire and the welsh don't have either the will to leave or the GDP to support the level of welfare they currently employ.

Also, I'd be more concerned with your own estate if I were you.

[Snowhobbit]

Enjoying the pre-referendum jitters are we?

The Scots are seeing with the Oil price drop how screwed they'd be if they had voted yes and they have at minimum 20 years before they get another go. Northern Ireland is still experiencing the afterglow of being the most loyal province in the empire and the welsh don't have either the will to leave or the GDP to support the level of welfare they currently employ.

Also, I'd be more concerned with your own estate if I were you.

Were you responding to anyone or do you normally address a whole room as a singular individual?

What jitters? If UK votes to leave then UK will after negotiations (or on their own if those drag out) and that's that. That is the choice of the electorate of the UK. It will still not mean the end of the EU. All this constant crying about how the EU is dying is rather tiring, we can go look back at history and I'm sure we will see plenty of talk about how the UK is dying as united kingdoms starting to divide (they already have their own parliaments and certain levels of autonomy), the empire is already dead anyway. That Scottish parliament has a majority support for independence fyi.

My house is just fine, no loans and low costs makes my financial concerns a lot easier. Or were you coyly trying to insinuate something else? I suggest you speak up instead of trying to make lame insinuations not relevant to the topic at hand. If you have any concerns about Sweden (and whatever independence movement you have clued in on) then I suggest you raise those questions in a relevant thread.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Philippus Flavius Homoerectus might think that the UK is as strong as ever. What he doesn't appreciate is that the union of the United Kingdoms is tilting towards its end, and will fall if the tilt is not corrected. Ireland is gone, Scotland is trying to open the door to leave and Wales might not feel there is much in it for them anymore.

You missed the Scotland referendum so let me give you the basics. England doesn't really care all that much any more - it's up to the Scots, Irish and Welsh is they want to go. They moan so much we might well be happier without them. Economically all three are a drain on the English finances due to the Barnett Formula and the only real logistical difficulty is with Scotland leaving - because we'll have to find somewhere else to put our nukes.

Realistically, Independence for all three is probably inevitable, complete home rule certainly is, because the devolved administrations have put them on the same path as the Dominions.

[Gilrandir]

England doesn't really care all that much any more - it's up to the Scots, Irish and Welsh is they want to go.

AFAIK, Cameron urged the Scots not to leave, and he is English, isn't he? England may pretend it doesn't care, but I believe it does.

[Greyblades]

What he means is PVC, a few people he knows and a couple of article writers/comments he reads dont care anymore.

Serious the only one actually testing our patience is Scotland, wales hasnt really done anything and Northern Ireland is more happy to be in the UK than even England.

[Rhyfelwyr]

As a resident Scot on this forum, I can say that Brexit is more likely to happen than Scottish independence. Support for the SNP has always been higher than support for independence - a lot of people vote for them as a protest vote.

I hope that these ongoing crises will cause the EU to be scaled down and return more to the functions of the EEC.

[Beskar]

Thread cleaned up, please keep it on topic. Person Attacks are bad, Debates are good.

[Fragony]

It's not a case of one collapse killing the EU, it's crisis after crisis gradually whittling away at the foundations.

If you look back eight years to 2008 you can see that after each crisis the EU is just a little bit worse off, a little bit less "in this together".

It took the better part of a thousand years for Rome to fall, we shall not be so lucky.

The EU seems to know only one perspective, if the EU screws up we need more EU. The proverbial snake that feeds on it's own tail. Things are NOT going to improve with these idiots handling things. I so very much hope that England will blow things apart. Everybody here already knew that a no vote was going to be just ignored, oh she said no but I thought she really wanted it.

EU fu&die please, Europe does not need the EU it's a continent not a country like the US. Fuck. Off. Excuse my French of German what was it

[Sarmatian]

Offering an outside perspective, the most recent polls in Serbia show that only 30% (and some change) of the population is in support of joining EU.

Usually it was much higher, ranging between 50% and 75%.

The weird thing is, all major parties support joining EU and it is a major part of their platform. Only right wing nutjobs are against it, and all together they can scrape between 10-15% of the vote.

EU is definitely in crisis and the only thing keeping it together is lack of viable alternative. In most countries there simply aren't any major political parties who are in favour of leaving EU. Sure, there are Tories in Britain, but even they are more in favour of a different status for UK within EU than pulling out completely.

EU will survive in some way, shape or form, especially the economic part. It's the political aspect that is in question.

[Lizardo]

The political union and the Law making that is imposed on EU countries has got to go and I think the Currency as well.

[Fragony]

We can introduce our own currency and buy euro's with it, shouldn't be all that complicated. European government must die.

@Sarmatarian, Geert Wilder's Freedom Party wants to leave the EU and is by far the biggest party in the polls at least. I think that they can do business with the socialists, that might sound odd but they have a lot in common. They both are socially very leftist and they both don't want any trouble with Russia

[Strike For The South]

So you're telling me politicians couldn't undo multiple generations worth of cultural and linguistic differences?

I am Jacks complete lack of surprise.

[Crandar]

To be precise, the Chinese phrase is a curse, not a proverb.

Fragony, you can edit the title by clicking the edit button and then choosing the go advanced option.

[Snowhobbit]

The political union and the Law making that is imposed on EU countries has got to go and I think the Currency as well.

So you want to save the EU by removing all that makes it the EU?

In order to save America we must remove the federal system of governance and let each state go their own way. Also I think we need to remove the bad influence of the supposed lizard overlords.

[Pannonian]

So you want to save the EU by removing all that makes it the EU?

In order to save America we must remove the federal system of governance and let each state go their own way. Also I think we need to remove the bad influence of the supposed lizard overlords.

The EU began as an EEC.

[Snowhobbit]

The EU began as an EEC.

Yes, and? The UK began as England. Does this mean we should revert to an absolute monarchy? How would you propose to organize trade in a way that would not have the exact same consequence as now in terms of trade regulation in international conventions or such, but at a much bigger expense and hassle in terms of negotiation?

[Snowhobbit]

It's not a case of one collapse killing the EU, it's crisis after crisis gradually whittling away at the foundations.

If you look back eight years to 2008 you can see that after each crisis the EU is just a little bit worse off, a little bit less "in this together".

It took the better part of a thousand years for Rome to fall, we shall not be so lucky.

It is a case of people always crying that the EU will fall *now* because *this crisis* is so bad and there is no recovery from it. I think you should be more concerned with the collapse of the UK given the support for independence in Scotland, which is greater than the support for leaving the EU proportionally. The way that the debt situation has worked out was largely inevitable since the member states retain full autonomy over how they manage their finances. How you think the EU can manage the Greek state budget without the legal ability to do so is beyond me.