Re: One more try - UK referendum
We did, that's what the conservatives won for and they're now resisting this tooth and nail. They cant be trusted to keep the status quo any more than the alternatives so we must remove the option. This referendum is how we do that.
We want the EU politicians out and they wont allow a next time.
Last edited by Greyblades; 06-16-2016 at 10:13.
Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
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Re: One more try - UK referendum
According to recent polls the "we" vs the "them" is about 52% vs 48%. So I wouldn't be so bold as to extend your opinion to the whole nation (especially Scotland). As someone here put it (referring to Ukrainians, though) the British are a deeply divided nation.
As for removing the option, it is always the best decision. Let's remove football, and we will see no fan clashes any more. Let's remove gays, and we will witness no gaybar shootings any more. Let's remove Muslims and we will suffer no terror acts any more. Removing a cause always works.
Re: One more try - UK referendum
Those suggestions would work, they are last resorts in the situation where all other alternatives have and will fail, and continued persistance is untennable which is what we are in with the EU.
You have one poll saying close remain, I have one saying certain leave.
Last edited by Greyblades; 06-16-2016 at 11:03.
Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: One more try - UK referendum
That's the rationale for why any intention to leave must mean taking action now. Ask why we should leave though, and the reasons make less sense.
Hence the fears about being flooded with immigrants because the EU imposes them on us. Except that the EU has no power to do any such thing as we're not in the Schengen zone, and any wave of immigrants is the decision of Downing Street, not Brussels. Or the fear that Turkey's accession will mean a wave of unsuitable EU members entering the UK. Except, as Furunculus points out in the Turkey thread, Turkey wasn't accepted back in the days before Erdogan's lunacy and IS, and indeed he blames the EU for not including Turkey as IHHO they should. Perhaps the two of you should have a chat to straighten things out, as one of you blames the EU for possibly accepting Turkey in the future as a reason for Brexit, while the other blames the EU for not accepting Turkey as a reason for Brexit.
Never mind about the mutually contradictory reasoning, the common theme is blaming the EU and thus necessitating Brexit. Once the UK is outside the EU, the EU will no longer be able to force the Schengen rules on the UK, which the UK isn't subject to anyway. Nor will it be able to introduce a wave of Turks into EU countries. Even though it's decided not to back when Turkey was rather more acceptable than now. I wonder when arguments about the euro will crop up, which the UK isn't subject to either.
Re: One more try - UK referendum
Red herring: the schingen zone just stops a nation from having border checks. The right to live and work in the UK by EU citizens was laid out in the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2000 (i assume act).
Yep most of our problems stem from our successive governments attempts to steer towards integration with the EU Brussels didnt exactly dissuade them from adopting thier faulty ideals to fit in with the club but the fault does indeed lie with the politicians charging towards the cliff like so many lemmings. We gave them many chances but the political class appears too invested in the EU to undo it on their own so we must remove thier end goal and shake things up.
They couldnt play nice so now they cant play at all. To hell with thier tantrums and threats.
Last edited by Greyblades; 06-16-2016 at 12:13.
Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: One more try - UK referendum
Untenable is too grim a word for current situation in the UK. And it is too conclusive to claim all other alternatives have failed. Presenting situation like the country is on the brink of the abyss and only a step back will save it is the rhetoric employed by both sides. Should the voting go either way I doubt if anything serious will ensue. Unless the Scots will start a to-do again in case a leave vote prevails. Which is serious.
Did you read the article carefully? It says:
The Ipsos MORI poll for the Evening Standard newspaper shows Leave with 53 per cent of the vote and Remain on 47 per cent cent.
Leave was up 10 per cent on the previous poll while Remain was down 10 per cent.
It means there is a growth of leavers, but the overall situation is still precarious. The 6% difference leaves the result still doubtful.
Like there were ever border checks even before Schengen was introduced. Moving between European countries you could sometimes fail to notice you have crossed into in a different state already.
Re: One more try - UK referendum
Well untennable depends on if the EU army becomes a thing, or the lisbon treaty loses it's opt out option. A while ago I'd say we'd be safe as the conservatives dont like giving up power, then Boris rebelled and the chances of teh conservatives surviving in one piece approached zero. A Labour/SNP coalition would basically make that it certainty.
I think unsustainable is a better descriptor, there are only so many bailouts and charity drives before the economies of the EU becomes too sunken and socially there is only so many immigrants people will put up with taking in before they start rebelling, perhaps not violently but we're already seeing nations going against Brussels. The way I see it the economic bailouts and migrant waves are not going to stop unless the EU's leaders change direction, which all signs point to not likely, and the longer it goes on the union is going to slump and decay until it is finally abandoned by the member countries. Point being I think we'll be better off getting off now than waiting for it to collapse, and we've lost the option to leave if things go sour in the short term.
Sorry, wrong independant link:Did you read the article carefully? It says:
The Ipsos MORI poll for the Evening Standard newspaper shows Leave with 53 per cent of the vote and Remain on 47 per cent cent.
Leave was up 10 per cent on the previous poll while Remain was down 10 per cent.
It means there is a growth of leavers, but the overall situation is still precarious. The 6% difference leaves the result still doubtful.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7075131.html
The survey of 2,000 people by ORB found that 55 per cent believe the UK should leave the EU (up four points since our last poll in April), while 45 per cent want it to remain (down four points). These figures are weighted to take account of people’s likelihood to vote. It is by far the biggest lead the Leave camp has enjoyed since ORB began polling the EU issue for The Independent a year ago, when it was Remain who enjoyed a 10-point lead. Now the tables have turned.
Even when the findings are not weighted for turnout, Leave is on 53 per cent (up three points since April) and Remain on 47 per cent (down three). The online poll, taken on Wednesday and Thursday, suggests the Out camp has achieved momentum at the critical time ahead of the 23 June referendum.
Differential turnout could prove crucial. ORB found that 78 per cent of Leave supporters say they will definitely vote – describing themselves as a “10” on a scale of 0-10, while only 66 per cent of Remain supporters say the same.Would have been a heck of a thing to get through the channel tunnel without noticing!Like there were ever border checks even before Schengen was introduced. Moving between European countries you could sometimes fail to notice you have crossed into in a different state already.
Point being they dont need the schingen agreement to move into british houses and take british jobs, they can do that with the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations which keeps us from refusing them.
Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: One more try - UK referendum
You are digging yourself into a deeper hole with these pollls. This one was published ON JUNE 10, the previous one - TODAY. So you see that the number of the leavers has actually decreased - on June 10 it was 55% vs 45%, now it is 53% vs 47%. Anyway, it is too close to predict anything.
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