Brexit Thread

[Kralizec]

For example, a Nautical Mile is is 1/60th of the distance between two line of latitude, or one navigational Minute, this is then divided into 10 cables, Cables being a usable measure at see. So, if you know the location of one ship and then run a cable to another ship, and take a bearing, you can likewise detmine the location of the other ship even without making any observations from it. This has navigational implications with regard to undersea hazards and is generally useful.

By contrast, the Statue mile is 1/3 of a League on land, which is the distance a man can walk in an hour. One explanation for the variation of the length of a mile is the difficulty in traversing the ground (and therefore the time taken) in different parts of the country.

The modern nautical mile is derived from the metric system: it's defined as exactly 1852 metres whereas you can only give an approximate conversion in yards or feet. It was established at an international convention and is included in the SI system, the traditional imperial unit is obsolete.

Having 1.000 different kind of measurements for different crafts and professions might be beneficial for those people themselves, but not for others who are trying to make sense of it. If I want to buy a rope, it would be much preferable to measure it in a unit that is clear and understandable to everyone rather than some arbitrary measurement that's only relevant to salesmen in the 17th century. In a few cases (such as the nautical mile) it might be worth to use a non-typical measurement, but otherwise it's much preferable to use universal, decimal units.

I wonder why I bothered to reply though...PVC seems to ignore my posts.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The modern nautical mile is derived from the metric system: it's defined as exactly 1852 metres whereas you can only give an approximate conversion in yards or feet. It was established at an international convention and is included in the SI system, the traditional imperial unit is obsolete.

Yes, I am aware of this - I was pointing out that the traditional Nautical Mile is not, in fact, an "Imperial" unit but a navigational one ultimately determined by the diameter of the Earth. The Modern Nautical Mile is an arbitrary metric measurement, this is preferable when using a computer but disadvantageous when using a Sextant and chart.

Obviously, in an age of GPS the modern Nautical Mile is more convenient, but if your GPS goes down and you have to rely on a chart, Sextant and and a piece of paper for your sums you suddenly have to work with bits of numbers.

Having 1.000 different kind of measurements for different crafts and professions might be beneficial for those people themselves, but not for others who are trying to make sense of it. If I want to buy a rope, it would be much preferable to measure it in a unit that is clear and understandable to everyone rather than some arbitrary measurement that's only relevant to salesmen in the 17th century. In a few cases (such as the nautical mile) it might be worth to use a non-typical measurement, but otherwise it's much preferable to use universal, decimal units.

In practice the Imperial System uses yards, feet, and inches for most measurements. Despite what that video implies most of the other measures are either nautical (and therefore only applied at see) or they are measurements "of record", used in land deeds and they are standardisations of common practice.

For example, paces. Say you were going to buy a house and, when first viewing the property, you want to know how long the garden is. You pace it out, you'll get a surveyor in to check everything with fixed measures later before you buy, but first thing you do is pace it out, because you know how long your pace is. So, naturally, when you get the surveyor's report it's in standardised paces and multiples of paces (rods and chains).

Given how many people have trouble visualising area and volume an anthropomorphic measure is useful even if a measure of mm is more accurate. The last part is debatable, though, as an inch rule is usually divided into 1/32 of an inch, which is smaller than a mm.

I wonder why I bothered to reply though...PVC seems to ignore my posts.

In response to your previous post - did you know you can half a mile 32 time and still retain a measure in whole inches? 55", to be exact, and you can divide it again (64 times) for 27 1/2". Division of a kilometre 64 times gives 15.625cm.

[CrossLOPER]

though, as an inch rule is usually divided into 1/32 of an inch, which is smaller than a mm

I am convinced that, at some point, you were replaced with a chatbot.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I am convinced that, at some point, you were replaced with a chatbot.

I just don't sound as pithy when not smacking a religious fanatic.

Look, I take iss ue with the contention that the Imperial measure is based on "barleycorns" and I take issue with someone pretending to be intelligent whilst rattling off all the various different Imperial Measures. I'm not saying the Imperial system is more or less accurate, or that we should use Imperial for everything. I merely pointed out that the Imperial measures are more useful in certain contexts and have certain advantages.

Imperial measures are always easier to divide into fractions, a 32nd of an Inch IS smaller than a millimetre and back when everything was in Imperial all measurements, like the length and diameter of screws, were in fractions of an inch which were marks on an inch rule.

A half-inch bolt is a simpler measure to work with than a 12.7mm one. Of course, it's all arbitary anyway - if we had used a Metric system originally we'd just have 15mm bolts and 10mm bolts.

Before you chortle too much at the "barleycorns" though you should think about WHY we didn't start with a base-ten system and why one had to be invented arbitrarily.

[Husar]

A half-inch bolt is a simpler measure to work with than a 12.7mm one. Of course, it's all arbitary anyway - if we had used a Metric system originally we'd just have 15mm bolts and 10mm bolts.

Exactly, a 1000th of a millimeter is also smaller than a 32nd of an inch...

Before you chortle too much at the "barleycorns" though you should think about WHY we didn't start with a base-ten system and why one had to be invented arbitrarily.

That may all have been valid in the middle ages but we now live in the 21st century.
I still wonder how you're going to use a sextant from the cockpit of an airplane by the way.
The base 10 system is a lot easier to use and the old system was even more arbitrary given that not every barley corn has exactly the same size. A meter always has the same size unlike the distance a person can walk in a day.

[Greyblades]

That may all have been valid in the middle ages but we now live in the 21st century.

Insert John Oliver "it's current year" meme here

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Exactly, a 1000th of a millimeter is also smaller than a 32nd of an inch...

Jolly hard to mark on a ruler, though - I have me steel rule here with me and it's obvious the Imperial side is more accurate than the Metric one, not by a huge amount but it's clearly visible to the naked eye. So, if I was minded to, say, build a cabinet I'd use the Imperial side.

That may all have been valid in the middle ages but we now live in the 21st century.

It's just as valid today if you don't have a calculator - Imperial is often easier to do in your head. It also exercises the brain - there was a noticeable drop in the scores in the Maths O-Level after Britain abandoned Charlemagne's denarius-based coinage. The fact we were persuaded to do so by the French and Germans is somewhat ironic.

I still wonder how you're going to use a sextant from the cockpit of an airplane by the way.

And I'm still not saying you are, although apparently the jokes on you because they did.

https://timeandnavigation.si.edu/nav...air/challenges

The base 10 system is a lot easier to use and the old system was even more arbitrary given that not every barley corn has exactly the same size. A meter always has the same size unlike the distance a person can walk in a day.

Well, the old system was taken from the length of Henry I's arm, so it's actually based on the Body of a King (and therefore ordained by God). This explains why the EU wanted us to get rid of it, because the Metric system was created by mere men.

[Gilrandir]

So, if I was minded to, say, build a cabinet I'd use the Imperial side.

It is a matter of taste, not of precision/imprecision of either system. Each system's unit is liable to fracturing and it is no use to argue which fracturing is better. Though I don't understand what part of your cabinet would be 1/32 of an inch.

It's just as valid today if you don't have a calculator - Imperial is often easier to do in your head. It also exercises the brain

Either counting exercises the brain, but if you meant that the imperial system exercises the brain MORE than the metric one, then the two sentences contradict each other. It is like saying that lifting a small weight is easier and it exercises your muscles better that lifting a great weight.

[Husar]

Jolly hard to mark on a ruler, though - I have me steel rule here with me and it's obvious the Imperial side is more accurate than the Metric one, not by a huge amount but it's clearly visible to the naked eye. So, if I was minded to, say, build a cabinet I'd use the Imperial side.

It's just as valid today if you don't have a calculator - Imperial is often easier to do in your head. It also exercises the brain - there was a noticeable drop in the scores in the Maths O-Level after Britain abandoned Charlemagne's denarius-based coinage. The fact we were persuaded to do so by the French and Germans is somewhat ironic.

That's both sad and hilarious at the same time.

And I'm still not saying you are, although apparently the jokes on you because they did.

https://timeandnavigation.si.edu/nav...air/challenges

The word challenges is all over that page, do you think everyday air travel should be made more dangerous by introducing more challenges? I suggest we begin by removing all police and body scanners from airports and itroduce sextants instead of GPS. Because hey, in the Middle Ages, airports didn't need police either!

Well, the old system was taken from the length of Henry I's arm, so it's actually based on the Body of a King (and therefore ordained by God). This explains why the EU wanted us to get rid of it, because the Metric system was created by mere men.

Oh hey, it's the Middle Ages again, where a loving god, whose son said to love your enemies, told us to go slay all the brown people and conquer their land and follow the personal ambitions of a dozen kings whom he all selected as rulers of men and then told to try and kill eachother.
Now I get it, makes perfect sense.

I'm a nothing, I do not identify with a party and no party covers all my concerns and views.

I'm sure you are the only very special snowflake who is like that.

[Gilrandir]

If I want to buy a rope, it would be much preferable to measure it in a unit that is clear and understandable to everyone rather than some arbitrary measurement that's only relevant to salesmen in the 17th century.

What? You want to drop ells and fathoms?