Futuramafia [Concluded]

[Montmorency]

Yes, that's what I said.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Isoing atheotes again.

[Askthepizzaguy]

At this point, the only way to really read Pelican/Al is to look at everyone else in the game first and see if you run out of spaces to put either another townie, or another scum.

Al+atheotes+Murska is not the team, in my opinion. Monty's in it.

If Al is in it, you kick atheotes out of it. That's why I gotta look at atheotes and see if there's anything I can reliably read.

Does anyone else want to try it, so it's not just me doing the iso?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm doing the iso separately, I don't want this part lost in the wall.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053715270

I dont like any of the quoted posts. I feel that Murska has been coasting without any follow up on his comments.

atheotes noted Murska's behavior earlier than just about anyone. But this is the critical day, no more time at all, and atheotes unwilling to lynch Murska.

That looks like distancing. How can Murska's behavior be so scummy to atheotes that he notes a big line of his bad behavior, but the follow up is not existent when it's critical, and when there's a slam dunk case on Murska exists.

That's a major problem. If atheotes refuses to lynch Murska under any circumstance, he's always scum with Murska.

I'll keep digging to see if I find anything that contradicts that.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Post immediately after that:

. precisely what i was doing.

this is how things look after reading the Khaan iso/interactions/comments.

Stork looks towny
Pelican is town
Winston looks scummy
Pizza looks scummy
Novice looks scummy
Choxorn seems to have an agenda. Scummy
Monty - no change because of anything in this. Town lean
GH - also no change. Neutral
Cuth - also no change - Neutral

Winston wasn't scum, Pizza isn't scum, Novice wasn't scum, choxorn wasn't scum, Monty is scummy as hell, Cuth was town, Stork was not scum, Pelican town-read seems consensus-y. atheotes is not scum hunting here, because anyone who could be scum is nowhere near is radar.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Pizza, how would you fit atheotes's recent Lone Ranger act in with him being potentially part of a scum team on the precipice of victory?

[Montmorency]

atheotes is not scum hunting here, because anyone who could be scum is nowhere near is radar.

You already explained why this retrospect approach does not work: no scum have been lynched.

[Riedquat]

You already explained why this retrospect approach does not work: no scum have been lynched.

But it serves to reaffirm my paranoid theory!

[Askthepizzaguy]

Didnt realize this started.
Vote: CrimsonFox
I see you as threat to Day 1 org traditions.
Welcome to the ORG!

Vote for townie

time to catch up. Whats happening?

Doesn't stay and do anything that day, or even stay and talk.

I did not like Stork's shifting of votes EOD D1.
Also, whatever happened to BSmith wagon on D1? i dont think we had v/v/v/v wagon.
I dont have any opinion on Choxorn/Riedquat right now.
Vote: Novice

Vote for townie

x-post.

I dont think it is enought to warrant a lynch today. Only conclusion is that Crimson and Choxorn are not w/w. If Crimson is resolved as town, then the possibility of Choxorn being scum is high.

Sus a townie

Cuth is coming off worser in the discussion with Stork. And I actually started from a position of Stork being scummy.

Sus a townie

I would prefer Cuth but will not be disappointed if you decided on Chox.

Directing tracker to the wrong targets

That was mostly a joke as i have GH as null.
I was townreading you for the most part. Of late i am getting scum vibes from you. it is still in the tin foil territory and probably not worth looking at today.

Curious to know what did dp101 do to cause scum vibes.
@atheotes
What posts or what behaviors from dp gave you scum vibes?

interesting. this should resolve itself. Hopefully Pizza can get another result.
in the meanwhile Vote: GH

This line bothers me.

i dont want to lynch you anymore

You are sceptical that mafia might have roleblocker and rolecop? we already know we have 4 dead town PRs of some kind. we have neutral parties, seen a day kill, and have more PR claims and you are claiming jailkeeper. Yet, you think its unlikely for scum to have Roleblocker and Role cop? i call BS on this post. I dont believe GH's claim.

Top line said at dp, I don't understand what dp did to cause the shift of opinion. It looks like pocketing, not solving.

Atheotes kind of angling for a GH lynch based on his claim without being willing to give it time to resolve.

4 dead town PRs
Choxorn - Mason - looks true.
Pizza - tracker - should resolve itself. Lets see if he can get a track result tonight.
GH - Jailkeeper - doubtful
Winston - softclaimed something - ???

Quat - neutral
We have other PRs. I am assuming the Crimson kill was a one time shot by non town.

I dont believe GH's claim. mainly based on progression to the claim. I also dont like his refusal to speak about his actions. So my vote stays there.
I will try to read up on the dead PRs to see if there were any hints.

atheotes-GH team looks extremely unlikely.

Note: In the next post, atheotes presses dp to vote GH. This can be scummy but it's points in atheotes' favor, because that can be an attempt to solve.

What is the point if Winston's ability? Catch somebody lying about their role?
IIRC, We still dont know who wa responsible for the day kill. I think it must be a another robot.
I also think that a robot is part of the scum and possibly responsible for the day kill.

If this is a theory, it's really on point. It's the same thought I had. Winston's role was a solving role, it wasn't simply bullshit. That's why he was targeted, I think.

I am so tempted to call pizza town for this post.

This is either a pocket attempt, or atheotes needs to vote with me today.

It is quite possible that pelican was role copped and GH has claimed to have jked him for 3 nights in a row bcos it is unverifiable.
Vote: GeneralHankerchief

Possible, but why is it conclusive?

We are 10 now. Tomorrow we will be 9 with 3 scum and Quat probably not counting for parity.
if we mislynch we probably lose and yet we have no consesus.

I suggest the following actions:
Winston - Check on me.
Pizza - Track GH
GH to jk Dp101.

I really dislike this post. I only got any information at all because I ignored the planners itt.

it was offwagon when you could have either advanced my wagon or tied

and your vote would never have made a difference where you put it

I was not sure about you and pizza. I thought and still think GH is scum. I posted a reason with my vote hoping it could be an alternate to the current wagons. on hindsight i probably should have tied the votes. I sincerely believe that GH is the scum roleblocker and Winston was the scum role cop.

Cuth's point about atheotes not solving with his vote. This was the problem I had with Murska, above all else.

How did you arrive at this? Does this mean, the baddies in the show are the scum here? Way too straight forward for my liking.
let me go find Murska's claim.

Also, i dont really want to make a claim here.

The time for a real, townie counterclaim was ages ago. That has long since passed.

Atheotes soft-claiming here is a major scum tell.

I cant find Murska's claim. Can anyone help me?

It was the first post that came up in the search and you can tell because it includes the quotation from the role PM. It's visible.

Do a search, it was basically the top line. Atheotes asking for help here tells me he wasn't even looking.

GH has been my top scum read. he was also quick to vote Murska. I would expect town GH to be more skeptical here.
if it comes to Monty and you, probably you.
I also have my doubts about Quat. He needs most of the Robots to survive. if the scum dont have any robots it effectively makes him town. So why would he propose a "scum must be human" theory? Guess i need to read all the claims again.

Atheotes had Murska as a suspect and never town-read him ever.

When did this change?

Laying the framework to vote pizza or GH today.

That plus the case on Al is atheotes' body of work.

If Al Sipsclar is scum, he's someone they can bus. I really don't think Al Sipsclar is scum. It's Murska-atheotes-Monty.

There's a slight possibility of Murska-atheotes-Al Sipsclar, but my god Monty is literally a tire fire if that is the case.

I know Monty is weird, but there's no way he's not scum here.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Cliffs notes of above post:

1) pushes townies all game, lazily votes for the people who claimed, asking for more data. Suspects basically only townies the entire game with the exception of Murska.

2) Murska: Noted five posts of his that were scummy. Promptly forgets to ever mention it again, never votes or pushes him, and then out of the blue, thinks GH is too "quick" to vote for Murska.

3) No explanation for why GH has to be scum, re-frames that issue as "why are you so sure he's NOT scum?"

Burden of proof is yours. You can't come up with a case against GH, so you ask us to do so. That's bs.


The bottom line is this: Everyone needs to get off of Al Sipsclar.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza, how would you fit atheotes's recent Lone Ranger act in with him being potentially part of a scum team on the precipice of victory?

Murska scum roleblocker almost always. Anyone else is bussable right now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Forgot to add to the summary that atheotes also avoided lynching the lynchee and voted off-wagon like Murska did.

That's worth at least an orange or a red.

[Montmorency]

Murska-atheotes-Monty.

Biggest reach yet. You talk so much about power wolfing yet you have a scum team expending all its voting capital on a secondary wagon, at LYLO?

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'll be back in two hours for the homestretch. Pizza, Monty, keep the vote on Murska in the meantime.

[Riedquat]

I'll be back in two hours for the homestretch. Pizza, Monty, keep the vote on Murska in the meantime.

Monty isn't voting Murska at the moment!

[Askthepizzaguy]

Biggest reach yet. You talk so much about power wolfing yet you have a scum team expending all its voting capital on a secondary wagon, at LYLO?

That's probably the weakest and most obviously wrong thing you've said all game.

This is the absolute most basic of the basic tactics. If ANY townie votes incorrectly, and this can be on Al or on Pizza, that's pretty much game.

Giving two wrong answers that people are willing to vote wins easier. If there's only one alternative to Murska, then there's a chance people think Murska is the scummier of the two.

Give three suspects and a false compromise is possible.

Dividing the votes is critical here. Pelican is voting for me, for example, and that's literally enough to cause 4 votes.

Unless town votes for someone and gets 5 votes, it's impossible for town to win except by a coin flip.

How could it NOT occur to you? How is that even possible?

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's like being willing to vote for Pizza or GH when both are wrong choices.

It's the same tactic over and over. Give two wrong choices so some townie latches on to one of them.

@Pelican wake up!

[Askthepizzaguy]

I can't do this without everyone in my town here, present, accounted for, and voting!

We're already relying on a neutral's vote! He's townier than you!

[Dp101]

Not quoting because it's hard to cut quotes up on mobile, but the comment from Atheotes about not wanting to lynch me came after I appreciated his post breaking down the post-khaan info. Other than that case looks solid.

[Askthepizzaguy]

We can at least force the 4-4.

That's an unnecessary 50/50 chance but given how crap I played I'll take it.

[Murska]

Eh, whatever.

Unvote
Vote: Pizza

So, I know you've mentioned the issue somewhat, but basically I want to get in your head more. I want a full reads list from you, with explanations, as well as possible scum teams. I'd also like your full thought process regarding your actions over the past day or three. We've got an appetizer with the whole "why I moved my vote" thing from last round, but now I want the main course. I'm at the point where pretty much only that will get me to move my vote off you, unless we're faced with competing Al Sipsclar/Pizza wagons.

Too much work to appease probable scum in an already-lost game.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Christ.

[Askthepizzaguy]

My wife wants to spend some time with me before bed, it's after 10pm here.

I can't stay. I need @Pelican 's vote to move.

Last call: If I do not have the exact team correct, then

@atheotes and @Montmorency

You guys need to move your votes and let Murska swing. I actually need one of you to vote for Murska to be safe.

I'd love to be exactly correct here, it would do my sanity a lot of good, but just in case I'm wrong.

Lost cause on one of you, probably both. But I refuse to not cover all the bases if this is my final post of the game.

Don't let it be 4-4.

[Montmorency]

That's probably the weakest and most obviously wrong thing you've said all game.

This is the absolute most basic of the basic tactics. If ANY townie votes incorrectly, and this can be on Al or on Pizza, that's pretty much game.

Giving two wrong answers that people are willing to vote wins easier. If there's only one alternative to Murska, then there's a chance people think Murska is the scummier of the two.

Give three suspects and a false compromise is possible.

Dividing the votes is critical here. Pelican is voting for me, for example, and that's literally enough to cause 4 votes.

Unless town votes for someone and gets 5 votes, it's impossible for town to win except by a coin flip.

How could it NOT occur to you? How is that even possible?

Wrong. You create an alternative with one member, not all three at once.

[Riedquat]

I can't do this without everyone in my town here, present, accounted for, and voting!

We're already relying on a neutral's vote! He's townier than you!

What were you saying the other day, you couldn't count with my vote for parity?

[Askthepizzaguy]

What were you saying the other day, you couldn't count with my vote for parity?

Yeah, meaning the game is locked / ends if there's not enough townies. For those purposes, your vote doesn't count.

Turns out we did and do need you. The good news is there's really no reason for the scums to kill you even if you vote with town, so if it's a 4-4 tie, and you're afraid that not holding your vote where it is will cost you a win, they have to chew through GH and me first or they will lose.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So you've earned your townie wings in my book.

If you were worried I never call you townie, well, you are one now. Even if you're not.

[Al Sipsclar]

I like Riedquat's paranoid theory. But I'm a sucker for in-universe clues. Even though Zack said that the knowledge of the universe would not help solving the game, he can be screwing with us nevertheless.
What I can't wrap my head around is why Dr. Ogden Wernstrom or Donbot, for that matter, would be "solid" cover roles for scum. For Larry (human) the cover was Elzar (alien). Pizza claimed Kif, who is another alien, so it'd be a point against Pizza.
I've always been Pizza's fanboi, I desperately want him to be town, but I won't regret losing to him, because I've been entertained.

So, Riedquat claimed neutral, and for this to be lylo, we need at least another 3rd party, who I assume is Pelican (Fry). I don't remember Pelican claiming neutral, but no one else counterclaimed.

If not me, not Riedquat, not Pelican, not DP, not GH, not Pizza, we have exactly Murska, atheotes and Monty left. The less-than-solid cover role makes me hesitant about Murska. Monty seems too reckless to be scum. I'm most convinced about atheotes. But I guess I have to do more paperwork to figure out who are the two scums among GH/Pizza/Murska/Monty.

Vote: atheotes

[Riedquat]

4 votes: Murska (GeneralHankerchief, Askthepizzaguy, Dp101, Riedquat)
2 votes: Al Sipsclar (atheotes, Montmorency)
2 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Pelican, Murska)
1 votes: Atheotes (Al sipsclar)

This can go so wrong....

[GeneralHankerchief]