Representative Democracy [Concluded]

[Montmorency]

I think Dicetosser is a wolf, thoughts?

but you're running on the premise that we, as a game, only analyse the votes put in by District Reps, and that those decisions be made independently of who's in their district?

Not at all. I'm just speaking to the specific merits of district sorting and leadership.

I reconsidered members voting the same as their rep for now, too hard to coordinate and scum can probably hide there just as easily. I still think reps should vote to represent the majority of votes in their district - yes or no to this?

Sure, I affirmed.

We need information on everyone. The justification for grouping the lower tiered players was to make them accountable for their own actions. The idea was/is that the game's vote for lynch actually belongs to the majority of players (the majority of players in the game being Town), and not just those elected to represent the district.

Maybe without the majority-vote representation you would have a better case for concentrating the class. Spreading them out in a regime where Reps vote as delegates of majorities achieves just the accountability you design, and avoids having a stagnant district where players don't have impetus to engage within-district. If we have to redistrict for tomorrow, please consider trying a different arrangement.

WRT Bold - you weren't in Snake Cult unless you were using a different name? And Barto was a NK, not a lynch???

me, sorry. I had it conflated with KIngslayer. Forget whatever I may have said wrt Snake Cult.

[Montmorency]

to be clear, i've said I do't know, I don't care for his ISOs, and he could.

Zack has kept sliding downhill, but no real thoughts, haven't focused on him.

Not a fan of Schema or Dice atm, feel like both a getting ignored

also worried that Cuth is town and Zack scum is helping me railroad him

For now it should be enough to point out that dice isn't as pure as the consensus seems to suggest. Reckless confrontation in a couple posts per day isn't as reckless as it seems.

[atheotes]

I'm about 10 pages behind and unlikely to catch up before the end of day.

vote: atheotes

vote: cuth

We can take care of Barto next.

Do you have any other reads besides these 2.
Please post your reads list.

[Renata]

I think Dicetosser is a wolf, thoughts?

Disagree.

[Renata]

to be clear, i've said I do't know, I don't care for his ISOs, and he could.

Zack has kept sliding downhill, but no real thoughts, haven't focused on him.

Not a fan of Schema or Dice atm, feel like both a getting ignored

also worried that Cuth is town and Zack scum is helping me railroad him

Can't say I haven't had that thought. Cuth is back on the scum side of 'fuck if I know' for me at the moment, though, heck if I can remember why.

[Renata]

Something I haven't seen brought up: I think Jabbz' idea that mafia framed Zack by killing Dp is exactly backwards and would consider it w/w equity if not for their day one fight. As it is, it only brings Jabbz down a notch or so in my estimation.

[Cass_]

to be clear, i've said I do't know, I don't care for his ISOs, and he could.

Zack has kept sliding downhill, but no real thoughts, haven't focused on him.

Not a fan of Schema or Dice atm, feel like both a getting ignored

also worried that Cuth is town and Zack scum is helping me railroad him

Cass, do you think I'm town?

If yes, your questions are mostly fruitless.

(and I answered them anyway iirc).

I'm just giving dice as an option. I want people to talk about him because NOBODY is talking about him.

My Town lean on you is YOLO tbh with pockets of paranoia/need more info, so from what I recall.. I think you're entry was Townish but your reactions with Cuth early on seemed OTT in places, and a couple of tonal things, and the 'time to lolcats' etc earlier this day made me pause. I thought Zack was initially hedgy/leading you on wrt Cuth but if both of those flip Town you'll slide down.

I think I'm going around in circles. I might take the rest of the phase off.

GL winston, I think Cuth and two of GH/Barto/BSmith

should be decent enough for now.

Talk to me about BSmith?

[BSmith]

Do you have any other reads besides these 2.
Please post your reads list.

My reads are pretty much the same as what I posted the other day. I don't have a full list all worked out, nor will I as I don't have the time and am mainly on mobile. I'll be at work Thursday/Friday this week amd should have some keyboard time then.

Outside of cuth or barto, who would you eliminate if you had the opportunity?

[Cuthillius]

You haven't even interacted with me lol.

and therefore his conclusion is incorrect?

no, and this is misrepresentation

[Cass_]

My reads are pretty much the same as what I posted the other day. I don't have a full list all worked out, nor will I as I don't have the time and am mainly on mobile. I'll be at work Thursday/Friday this week amd should have some keyboard time then.

Outside of cuth or barto, who would you eliminate if you had the opportunity?

Same question to you?

Get that mobile sucks, but what do you make of Csargo/Fenn /Schema ?

[atheotes]

I think Dicetosser is a wolf, thoughts?

I dont like Dice's reads list.
I find it odd that "Cuth - probably town" is higher than Renata, while Zack has a special place below them.
Also, Visor as tinfoil is grouped under scum with 2 others.
it looks scummy. He could be a wolf. Probably better to resolve Cuth tonight.

[Cuthillius]

How is a post that votes you, sheeping points made by other players, very hard for you to find any sort of scum alignment in, if you're Town?

Again, throughout the game BSmith's posts do not read like he has an agenda; needs/wants to get anything done

Given half the game is voting for me and several others have in the past, i'm not taking that as much of a problem, particularly given my perspective thereon would likely be unideal

but meh

if he's a wolf he's a very sheepy and consistent and slanky wolf

[Cuthillius]

I dont like Dice's reads list.
I find it odd that "Cuth - probably town" is higher than Renata, while Zack has a special place below them.
Also, Visor as tinfoil is grouped under scum with 2 others.
it looks scummy. He could be a wolf. Probably better to resolve Cuth tonight.

eww

like these are awful reasons to come to the conclusion that he is a wolf

i reaaally hate this post

[Cass_]

I dont like Dice's reads list.
I find it odd that "Cuth - probably town" is higher than Renata, while Zack has a special place below them.
Also, Visor as tinfoil is grouped under scum with 2 others.
it looks scummy. He could be a wolf. Probably better to resolve Cuth tonight.

Do you have a list of your own reads?

Didn't you say you might be willing to put Dice as rep for his vote on Monty?

[Cuthillius]

Yes I'm sure he could make that effort as a wolf.

i just want to point out that we're not talking about ability

technically i am able to do many things

it is just that, across every single game i've played, ever

i cannot make myself do more work than necessary

and while there have been scum games where i've iso'd or looked at, like, 4-5 players

those are both rare and i couldn't be bothered to read all the posts

[Cuthillius]

eww

like these are awful reasons to come to the conclusion that he is a wolf

i reaaally hate this post

elaborations:

you disagree with him, seriously

therefore scum, basically

since he has different reads, that looks scummy, so we should go along with the mislynch as planned

cool beans

[Cuthillius]

anyway cass

you asked for the ISO's

i assume you read them

i hope you appreciate them

i think you like cake

and cake is good

therefore

something something

idk i need more sleep

[Jabbz]

Something I haven't seen brought up: I think Jabbz' idea that mafia framed Zack by killing Dp is exactly backwards and would consider it w/w equity if not for their day one fight. As it is, it only brings Jabbz down a notch or so in my estimation.

I don't view it so much as mafia framing Zack, as mafia choosing their kill by which will cause the most havoc among the remaining town. Zack had already irritated a number of people at that point, so anything that painted him negatively would possibly provide the extra push necessary for a mislynch.

[atheotes]

My reads are pretty much the same as what I posted the other day. I don't have a full list all worked out, nor will I as I don't have the time and am mainly on mobile. I'll be at work Thursday/Friday this week amd should have some keyboard time then.

Outside of cuth or barto, who would you eliminate if you had the opportunity?

ok. Hopefully we can see more from you next day phase.
I just added Dice to the POE. Fenn, yourself. Monty is also somewhere there. Al sips has trended up a little.
Will have to read Schema tomorrow.
Not going to tinfoil territory yet.

[atheotes]

Do you have a list of your own reads?

Didn't you say you might be willing to put Dice as rep for his vote on Monty?

I dont have it compiled. a little jaded to put it together now. Will try to do it before EOD. But I expect to be here tomorrow. so lacking the energy to do it right away.

Nope. I said i might be willing to vote him as rep based on his reads list.

[atheotes]

elaborations:

you disagree with him, seriously

therefore scum, basically

since he has different reads, that looks scummy, so we should go along with the mislynch as planned

cool beans

If thats how you read it....sure.
Vote: atheotes
Vote: Cuthillius

[Winston Hughes]

Very little time; should be much better tomorrow.

Zack remains my strongest scum read at this point. Maybe I'm just stuck in a tunnel, but he just looks really bad to me again today, esp. his early focus on the Cass-as-scum theory.

Jabbz is now giving Zack solid townreads, though, to the point where it seems there's no chance he'll support me while I'm aiming that way.

Knowing I won't be around for eod, I feel like I don't really have any choice but to put the decision in Jabbz's hands.

Vote: Jabbz

Vote: Zack

[Cass_]

Vote: Visor
Vote: El Barto

Likely, not going to be around EOD.

Not lynching:
Cass_
Renata
atheotes
Winston Hughes
Visor

No idea:
Jabbz
dicetosser1
Fenn
Schema
Riedquat
Monstrbro

Ok to lynch:
Cuthillius
BSmith
Zack
Montmorency
El Barto

Why the change from Monty to Barto?;
Can you explain the progression on Schema/why she's dropped down?

Schema looks okay on re-read. I'm moving her to my Zack/Monstr/WH group.

Backed off from Renata
Monstr interaction seems good
Visor interaction is ok, love the fluorine reference.
Noted Monty's Visor engagement
Cleared Sooh, Renata, Monstr
Scum leans on Visor for her reaction testing and Cuth push
Mentioned choxorn in passing.
Null on atheotes
votes GH

Vote: Monty

[Cass_]

I dont like Dice's reads list.
I find it odd that "Cuth - probably town" is higher than Renata, while Zack has a special place below them.
Also, Visor as tinfoil is grouped under scum with 2 others.
it looks scummy. He could be a wolf. Probably better to resolve Cuth tonight.

I dont have it compiled. a little jaded to put it together now. Will try to do it before EOD. But I expect to be here tomorrow. so lacking the energy to do it right away.

Nope. I said i might be willing to vote him as rep based on his reads list.

*Gives chocolate for energy and answers*

? Bold seems contradictory

[BSmith]

Same question to you?

Get that mobile sucks, but what do you make of Csargo/Fenn /Schema ?

I dont need to answer that question for myself.

As for Fenn and Schema... I dont have a lean either way to be honest. Fenn seems much more active than Csargo, but otherwise their posts have gotten lost in all the noise for me.

Anyone able to do a tally for me? I have no sense of how the lynch is stacking up and who the alternatives/runners up might be.

[Cass_]

Something I haven't seen brought up: I think Jabbz' idea that mafia framed Zack by killing Dp is exactly backwards and would consider it w/w equity if not for their day one fight. As it is, it only brings Jabbz down a notch or so in my estimation.

@Renata

Where are you at with Zack?

His entrance today is better for me tone/attitude-wise, but then mismatch with Barto/Cuth reads/votes and the disappearance is ??

Also, are you going to be here until/at EoD?

[Monstrdude]

Dice could be a wolf @Cass_ but i have limited experience with him and read him the way you do and I've been thinking villager

[Montmorency]

*Gives chocolate for energy and answers*

? Bold seems contradictory

He suggested it before dice had posted his list.

[Monstrdude]

@Al Sipsclar

What about my posts makes you have "no idea" about my alignment and why?

[Cass_]

If I was playing D1 I would have pushed Sooh too, at least until the PR claim (and IIRC Schema backed off at that point). APart from that I thought Schema did pretty well explaining her reasoning for her reads. And of course I'd like to be the rep, but I don't forsee getting elected. SOmebody has to vote for another person.

Top lynch choice right now is Cuthillius. El Barto maybe, but I think he can wait for later and he is less suspicious if Cuth is a wolf. I still haven't gotten around to doing the D2 reread like I was planning, need to ISO Riedquat and Schema too and compare them.

ok well the riedquat ISO didn't take long at all. Not a fan of the self-effacing tone, but points for being clear and direct I guess. I could be persuaded to elect him. Riedquat who would you lynch if you had your way?

@Fenn - have you followed up on Schema?
Thoughts?

Monstr, I must be pretty dumb because I don't see how that quoted El Barto post screams scum. I mean your posts do have a stream-of-consciousness quality to them (a towny sign imo). Would town Barto really word that post differently?

Anyway.

Paranoia says that Visor and Zack pushing Cuth D2 was suspiciously coordinated, buuut I did like eg Visor's interactions with Monty and Zack in general, and my only doubt on Cuth scum is that he's sounded almost too scummy to be scum, so I'm only going to think more about that if Cuth is lynched and flips town.

Current read list, roughly ordered:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

definitely villagers:
Atheotes
Renata
Cass

probably villager:
Monstrbro
Visor
Zack

(Would preferentially vote any of the above as rep if they had been in my district)

villager lean:
Winston
Schema
Reidquat
Al Sipsclar

no idea:
Jabbz
BSmith
Montmorency (lot of posts, and I agree with him wrt districting and Cuth...but weird tone I don't like)

scum lean:
dicetosser
El Barto

probably scum:
Cuthillius (strangely find his last few posts villagery, but his earlier stuff still makes me think scum)

Vote: Cuthillius

Reads spoilered for size.

Mindmeld with the first part of the response to Monstr.

Rigid vote/read on Cuth with multiple reservations is strange.

Can agree with /understand most of the rest of the read order from a Town point of view/things you've explained but:

Why is Atheotes definitely a villager?
Why is Al Sips in with your villager leans?