Brexit Thread

[Pannonian]

But your sovereignty will still be constrained. You would have to proceed by pulling out of the United Nations and any international treaties and organizations.

And GB continues to (probably intentionally) miss the fact that the UK government has always had more control over all these things than it has chosen to exercise. Once the UK government has even greater control, it will continue to do the same as before, for the same reasons as before (ie. the economy and infrastructure are dependent on them), except without access to the single market.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

And GB continues to (probably intentionally) miss the fact that the UK government has always had more control over all these things than it has chosen to exercise. Once the UK government has even greater control, it will continue to do the same as before, for the same reasons as before (ie. the economy and infrastructure are dependent on them), except without access to the single market.

That is and isn't true.

For example - weights and measures - we were briefly forced to adopt metric and Imperial was banned until mass-revolt forced the EU to soften the regulation.

Port Talbort Steel - the UK Government cannot take it into public ownership without violating EU regulations on unfair state support for private business. The same regulations that enforced mass-privatisation in Bulgaria and Romania, creating new opportunities for graft.

The best thing about leaving the EU will be removing the excuse that the EU is preventing the government from doing anything in a given situation.

[Pannonian]

That is and isn't true.

For example - weights and measures - we were briefly forced to adopt metric and Imperial was banned until mass-revolt forced the EU to soften the regulation.

Port Talbort Steel - the UK Government cannot take it into public ownership without violating EU regulations on unfair state support for private business. The same regulations that enforced mass-privatisation in Bulgaria and Romania, creating new opportunities for graft.

The best thing about leaving the EU will be removing the excuse that the EU is preventing the government from doing anything in a given situation.

And when nothing changes because the practicalities demand current solutions? How do you resolve sectors that employ a disproportionate number of non-UK citizens? Do you close hospitals because Asian nurses and doctors aren't welcome any more? Do you let OAPs rot in their homes because eastern European carers aren't wanted any more?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

And when nothing changes because the practicalities demand current solutions? How do you resolve sectors that employ a disproportionate number of non-UK citizens? Do you close hospitals because Asian nurses and doctors aren't welcome any more? Do you let OAPs rot in their homes because eastern European carers aren't wanted any more?

Strawman.

I was talking about EU regulation making UK regulation inflexible, you are talking about the UK becoming Xenophobic.

[Montmorency]

The best thing about leaving the EU will be removing the excuse that the EU is preventing the government from doing anything in a given situation.

What's the next excuse?

[Pannonian]

What's the next excuse?

Foreigners who are already here.

[Gilrandir]

But your sovereignty will still be constrained. You would have to proceed by pulling out of the United Nations and any international treaties and organizations.

The Commonwealth included?

[Pannonian]

Strawman.

I was talking about EU regulation making UK regulation inflexible, you are talking about the UK becoming Xenophobic.

You've listed a couple of instances where the UK overturned or did not implement EU regulations, in keeping with the white paper's statement that the UK had never actually lost sovereignty. In return for not having those disagreements which had ended in the UK's favour, we've left the single market, meaning we will no longer be competitive in the market where 50% of our exports go.

And note that by far the biggest reason voters have cited as the reason for Leave is immigration, ie. they want less of it. The reason we are leaving the single market is because the government recognises this as a non-negotiable point. If you disagree, and freedom of movement isn't as important a point as flexibility of regulations, then perhaps you can write to the PM and explain that FoM is actually negotiable after all, and thus access to the single market is possible. Perhaps we can have another referendum clarifying this point. Perhaps this second referendum will clarify that, yes, the UK is indeed xenophobic after all, and we're willing to wreck our economy if it means fewer of these nasty foreigners will be here. As it is, the government takes this as a given.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

What's the next excuse?

There isn't one, that's the point.

You've listed a couple of instances where the UK overturned or did not implement EU regulations, in keeping with the white paper's statement that the UK had never actually lost sovereignty. In return for not having those disagreements which had ended in the UK's favour, we've left the single market, meaning we will no longer be competitive in the market where 50% of our exports go.

And note that by far the biggest reason voters have cited as the reason for Leave is immigration, ie. they want less of it. The reason we are leaving the single market is because the government recognises this as a non-negotiable point. If you disagree, and freedom of movement isn't as important a point as flexibility of regulations, then perhaps you can write to the PM and explain that FoM is actually negotiable after all, and thus access to the single market is possible. Perhaps we can have another referendum clarifying this point. Perhaps this second referendum will clarify that, yes, the UK is indeed xenophobic after all, and we're willing to wreck our economy if it means fewer of these nasty foreigners will be here. As it is, the government takes this as a given.

Like I said - excuses.

As to the Immigration argument - people need to get over this. Wanting less immigration does not make you evil in a country as overcrowded as this one.

[Husar]

As to the Immigration argument - people need to get over this. Wanting less immigration does not make you evil in a country as overcrowded as this one.

???

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=21000

[Montmorency]

There isn't one, that's the point.

Doesn't seem likely.

[Pannonian]

There isn't one, that's the point.

Like I said - excuses.

As to the Immigration argument - people need to get over this. Wanting less immigration does not make you evil in a country as overcrowded as this one.

There's a bright point I suppose. Immigration from the EU is down in some areas, and existing EU immigrants are wanting out.

Nurses from Europe are turning their backs on Britain, according to new figures showing the number registering to work here since the Brexit referendum has fallen by 90 per cent.

Just 101 nurses and midwives from other European nations joined the register to work here last month - a drop from 1,304 in July, the month immediately after the referendum, official figures show.

The statistics from the Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) also show a rise in the number of EU nurses who have decided to stop working in the UK.

Last month, 318 decided to leave the NMC’s register - almost twice the 177 who did so in June, the month of the referendum.

The number of overseas nurses asking for an application pack to register to work in Britain also fell dramatically, with just 453 enquiries in December - compared with 697 in July. An even sharper drop was seen last February, after rules were changed to allow regulators to carry out language tests.

Last January, almost 3,700 nurses and midwives from the Continent asked for an application pack - but after the clampdown, the figure fell to just 861 the following month, since when it has dropped.

The NHS is heavily reliant on overseas workers, and the number of nurses coming to Britain from elsewhere in Europe has tripled in the last four years.

...

Racist attacks on NHS staff have more than doubled in a year, with Brexit blamed for inflaming tensions in hospitals. Assaults on health service employees involving religious or racial factors rose from 225 in 2014-15 to 496 in 2015/16, with a continued rise in recent months, official statistics show.

Earlier this month, it emerged that almost every hospital in the UK has a shortage of nurses.

Staff said patients were being left unwashed, unmonitored and without crucial medications, amid a worsening crisis in the country’s hospitals.

Last week it emerged that more than 7,000 nurse posts could be axed from NHS hospitals across the country despite a mounting Accident & Emergency crisis.

Every area has been ordered to draw up measures to save £22 billion and reorganise health services in order to meet rising demand from an ageing population.

But the documents suggest that the proposals could result in the loss of more than 17,000 staff by 2020 – including 7,300 nurses and midwives.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2...e-brexit-vote/