P2: GH FOS Visor for voting atheotes, quiet vote on inactive/lurker
*I say Visor is innocent, Renata disagrees, I demur
*Zack calls Visor's vote a wolfclaim
*I scumteam Visor, Renata, DP101
*Visor says atheotes is villager, though doesn't change vote; thinks Chox town too, but light
P3: *atheotes says Visor town, likes Snerk's humor
*Renata reads: Snerk too much blabber and non-game stuff, GH relaxed (renata bias toward not suspecting GH), Monty shows signs of thought, looking for awkward behavior and pairing, but null because wrong, DP null, Chox might actually be townie this time because not obvious bad like last
*Arakhor doesn't quite agree w/ atheots that Visor town, because Visor doing silly things but not making enough throwaway leans
*Sooh thinks Renata trying too hard, GH disagrees, Snerk disagrees with disagreement, citing frantic beginning then change into all-business
*Zack says "trying" is not scummy, townies more actual try than scum pretense-try and it shows
*Snerk says in general scum care more than town, Renata also disagrees
*Visor thinks Chox meta is less stilted, less agenda, less conformist than in scum games
*visor softclaims seer
P4:
*Zack mentions lynchproof spell and GH crying when it is used; Renata fingers Zack softclaiming
*Zack wifoms toward Renata, says he would kill her as wolf; Renata acknowledges and asserts tinfoil in proportion to towniness
*Zack softclaim lynchproof/bulletproof
*GH finds Snerk/Arakhor talky on meta and strategy, but less so with Zack for Org meta
*
P5:
*Zack finds it concerning that GH canvassed for opinions on Arakhor/Snerk rather than giving his own, but GH counters with lack of meta on those players and that w/o context it's tiniest scum lean on the two; GH thinks Zack is more likely to force/manufacture issues as scum
*Zack jokes Visor "kappa" scum for not talking while thanking posts; GH finds the Visor-atheotes interactions weird, plus that people are early town-reading Visor more than expected; Zack agree
*Arakhor on the above feels Visor does weird things and atheotes usually lurks, and the mutual town read is weird; Zack finds it weirder on atheotes' end than on Visor's
*Renata greets Winston mentioning Al Sips initial promise to return with reads, Winston calls it Al's usual MO and asks why Renata brought it up; Renata replies bc she voting AlS, but Winston finds that weak (on the vote, or on the mention?)
*DP asks Winston if he is scum, Winston replies still no
*
P6:
*Zack notes Winston accusing Renata of weakness re: AlS, suggests expectation for Al to flip scum; Renata comments that Winston should be lynched next in that case; Winston responds by voting AlS, prompting Zack to vote Winston;
*Zack leans: Winton Hughes, atheotes wolf team. Maybe Visor. Al spewed town or mafia, depending on your interpretation. GH, Renata town.
*Zack justifies Winston vote by saying it's not good look to defend someone and then flip to voting them to defend oneself; Winston says he's not defending, just doesn't care even if the vote is weak (though still valid)
*Renata votes Winston and asks him to tone his way out; Winston says if he were scum it wouldn't be this easy, is playing for info; Zack doesn't buy it, so Winston suggests deep thought;
*Winston asks Csargo for reads, and Zack retaliates by asking Winston for his reads/leans; Winston hasn't felt anything yet, but will look through the thread;
*DP thinks Winston-Zack are town in this exchange; Renata claims unsure on both, but this read is the first thing so far that Renata likes from DP; if Zack is wolf, then Winston is right and found out desire to take advantage of easy inconsistency
*Csargo has Zack, Renata, Monty as town, GH as null, Visor as quieter than usual
*Winston gut-town Monty, feels tension in Renata, GH town vibes meaning effortful if scum, Snerk effort level could be scummy for him but maybe not bc lampshading; GH wants explanations for reads on him and Renata, Winston says difficult for lack of conscious reactions but will work on it
*
*Tally so far:
Lewwyn -2 (Dp101, Sooh)
Montmorency - 2 (GHC, (Atheotes))
Renata - 2 (Montmorency, Snerk)
Winston Hughes - 2 (Kcaz, Renata)
Al Spisclar - 1 (Winston Hughes)
Arakhor - 1 (Csargo)
Atheotes - 1 (Visor)
BSmith - 1 (Al Sipsclar)
Csargo - 1 (Arakhor)
Kcaz - 1 (Choxorn)
Sooh - 1 (Lewwyn)
P7:
*GH wants reads from Arakhor, switches onto atheotes; Renata demands reasons (on which item?);
*GH reads Town: Zack (tone); Renata; Csargo (soul); Snerk (tone); Renata(extra town) and Scum: Visor & atheotes (similar to Zack reasoning for vote, though no mention of Zack); Winston (for twiggy presence and for analytical posts & justification that are often scummy); Arakhor (hedginess); Zack likes these lists, Csargo unsure of feelings over soul-read
*Snerk disagrees his effort levels are scummy, does not agree that Winston and Zack are solid town by their interactions - though he likes those interactions - and agrees with GH on Arakhor's hedginess but then hedges that Arakhor is always hedgy
*Renata asks Snerk about his vote on her, Snerk says could change, Renata suggests Winston
*Winston recalls Snerk meta that he acted more townie as scum due to effort, corroborated/lampshaded by Snerks recent comments in this game; Winston feels he understands why Zack doesn't like his entry, but doesnt understand where Renata is coming from
*Renata reiterated Winston's analytical justification sounded weak and unlike him; Zack agrees, and claims "not caring" is unlike town Winston in early game, even if shitposting can be
*Winston explaining reads: on GH, he sees townie mind at work in process, though it can be faked, and prefer not to spend energy on further explaining and to focus on non-town reads; on Renata, she started relaxed, but avoiding provocation while being jokey, defusing toward Monty with OMGUS rather than engaging, reasonable-but-easy vote on Snerk, brushing off his OMGUS, same safety in early reads and Al Sip vote - but this is all gut reaction and least-charitable interpretation, justified just for GH's sake and not a real push or considered case
*DP votes Renata for pushing Winston, sounds like scum latching onto something in a townie, while town Renata should have moved on by now; Zack finds this conviction weird, but DP likes Winston's tone on meta, though from others he might be suspicious
*Sooh doesn't want Snerk to be modkilled, agrees with scumlean on Renata but wants to give her a chance/space
*
P8:
*Renata finds DP's vote honest, asks him if he sees difference between her and Zack, feels opposite on Winston tone after Zack confrontation; DP didn't like the way she wagoned onto Zack's questioning; Renata decided to drop it for now
*Sooh asks about GH post on Org meta, greeting Snerk/Arakhor, and asking about them, is it weird for GH? Csargo says no
*Sooh asks why Zack put GH town after sussing him for asking for evaluation on Snerk/Arakhor talkiness; Zack says it was a while ago, but Sooh insists;
*Sooh asks
*Winston says he doesn't put self into danger D1 as scum for silly stuff, he wasn't trying to be lynchbait just wasn't worried about it, he wasn't fumbling or acting out of nervousness, fear or panic, accuses Renata of latching on to justify scumread; Renata suggests he can make mistakes, but it's not the vote on Al itself as Zack felt, and that if Winston thinks renata is trying to justify a scumread then that sounds off too and in that case he should vote her over Al Sips
*Winston tells Zack that he was testing Renata by asking about Al and Zack's reaction came as an unexpected bonus, and on mistakes that such a mistake as Renata identifies would be too obvious, esp. for keeping the focus on it; Renata then asks why he voted for Al in that case, and Winston claims for reaction fishing; on the subject of wording re: "justify a scumread", Winston doesn't get it but Renata feels this implies she is making it up and that Winston used the wording to insinuate that impression into the thread; Winston disagrees with that construal of "justification"; on reaction fishing, Zack equates it to simple test and derides it, but Winston says it's more one piece toward constructing reads
*Renata doesn't find Zack towny; Sooh feels like Zack is ignoring her (Sooh); Renata announces ambivalence on Winston, votes Al Sips for ptomising to catch up and not showing up when the thread was but young (>rand scum); Arakhor quotes the Al Sips posts in question
*Arakhor comments on number of posts, disclaims accusations of hedging as identifying mere ignorance; feels that scum Winston more likely to be active but quiet rather than windy; doesn't want to policy lynch AlS, as his behavior might be too scummy to be true; on Visor/Atheotes, Visor often chats up the thread and changes opinions, is often onto something by happenstance
*Renata reads list:
1. Dp101 -- slight town
2. Bsmith -- no show
3. GeneralHankerchief -- towny enough
4. Montmorency -- wtf monty where'd you go
5. Choxorn -- probably town
6. Atheotes -- maybe awkward start w/visor based on others' comments
7. Arakhor -- no read personally yet, apparently GH finds him scummy
8. Snerk -- mildly scummy
9. Al Sipclar -- one-post scummy
10. Visor -- see atheotes with a side a monty, looked okish while here but don't see how I can ever clear him on this little
11. Csargo -- no read
12. Winston Hughes -- heck if I know
13. Kcaz -- having tinfoil of me/Jabbz/Zack from last game if Winston is town. maybe a little limited in his interests so far? no sure
14. Sooh -- townie enough
15. Renata
16. Lewwyn -- no read
*
P9:
*Lewynn questions DP on Renata, feels reacting on Winston in the moment should not be scummy, maybe if it were a while later; finds null on Winston, doesn't like DP calling him obvious town; DP questions all this, including why Lewynn singled this out from the thread after missing most of the action; Lewwyn finds timing to matter (esp. in early game) bc scum put more thought into actions and so less likely to make quick moves or changes based on gut; finds null/torn on Renata, but alarmed by aggressiveness from DP (not answering questions/comments and raising accusatory questions)
*Lewynn doesn't like the timing of Renata's switch back onto Al Sips, though he likes the reasoning (noting that Visor likes this vote too re: his recent return and switch onto AlS);
*Zack doesn't see the reasoning against Al Sip
*Lewynn wants more reaction from DP to scrutinize against meta; DP understands the reasons
*Choxorn doesn't like DP's vote/case against Renata, feels it's coming from scum defending partner against accuser; DP complains that by this reasoning Choxorn should be voting the scum whom he thinks DP is defending, i.e. Winston; Chox respond by referencing Lewynn's idea below, and also saying he just feels DP scummier ATM, and if it's scum Winston/DP then voting either is fine, but Winston has had lots of attention but only one vote by now
*Lewynn agrees with Choxorn and votes DP, noting that DP could also be scum defending/buddying town; overall, reactions from DP are suspicious;
*
*
P10:
*Visor has no read on Monty; Lewwyn sees me as slight scum on post, slight town on meta
*Renata feels one of the people voting her is scum (DP, Monty, Snerk)
*Visor felt that Choxorn on voting DP over Winston because Winston had attention anyway is super villagery; Renata agrees Choxorn purest poster so far
*Renata asks Visor why he think Atheotes town, Visor says no agenda, free flowing posts, liked his reactions to his own attack and posts after the early entrance; Renata says atheotes looks better than other games, but she is not confident/wary/tinfoil
*Visor and Renata leaning Lewwyn town for reasoning; Sooh also thinks Lewwyn looks pretty good
*
P11:
*Arakhor jumps onto Al Sips wagon for no-show, and suspects Monty for role fishing, though unsure wht to make of possibility of lynch spell; Renata doesn't like the last sentence but can't say why
*Renata wants more on Arakhor's analysis of town Visor usually adding throwaway reads, doesn't like him flipping on Al Sip, using many words but saying little, so votes him (though Al vote could be bussing too); Renata likes GH now because he apparently saw this in Arakhor earlier; Arakhor clarifies that he reads people differntly, and in fact sees Visor as town now. for meta; Arakhor adds that his own meta is known for rambling and indecisiveness, and that bussing AlS as scum would be too obvious;
*GH notes that - and excused Visor specifically - >rand scum for people who come in and subtly try to discourage mechanics talk, and uses it to question Arakhor's scum read on me; GH is worried about atheotes and AlS inactivity, for the latter more so, but atheotes scum read; independently too; then GH reads Al comments from earlier games and boosts him up for the lurking based on it;
*BSmith appears, says Al Sips should be given more chances until lurks in pattern, likes Choxorn and Lewwyn; thinks the whole Winston-Zack-Renata confrontation is weird, may or may not be smoke there; Zack and Arakhor are null, vote DP because he's not usual puretown transparent, though that may signal growth as player; Renata likes the post (though there isn't a solid opinion on anyone in it) except the comment on Arakhor being de jure vote of the moment - because he has only 1 vote - so maybe BSmith isn't as caught up as he tries to show; GH doesn't awnt to lynch DP too early, got it wrong in the past
*Renata clarifies on AlS that she didn't like specifically the wording on coming back later to read/catch up given that wording and lack of posts up to then;
*Lewwyn feeling fine with Visor
*GH wants to lynch inside: atheotes, Arakhor, Visor, maybe AlS; null read on BSmith and DP, town read on Zack, Renata, Choxorn, Lewwyn, & Csargo
*DP doesn't like GH, doesn't like Renata's case on Arakhor, wants to know if Visor thanking posts should be town or scummy;
*Renata prefers Arakhor or Al Sips for lynch, mentions trios of DP-Snerk-Monty, and Winston-DP-Zack
*Winston points out that last time someone called Chox pure, he was scum (re: Renata earlier)
*Renata disputes that Arakhor sounds undecided
*
P12:
*Renata's scum list is half the game now
*DP votes Arakhor because his posts sound constructed; Arakhor retorts that his D1 play is always unfocused
*DP suggests Renata has adopted Pizza method of scumming - but not really
*
*
P13:
*Arakhor feels again that Renata on Al is suspicious, voting Arakhor for voting Al
*Renata suggests Monty-Visor-Zack
*Renata feels Arakhor trying to paint her as illogical >rand scum
*Zack feels cases on Arakhor and AlS are bad, esp. Arakhor on awkwardness
*Zack on Visor: His effort and seriousness levels will depend a lot on his teammates and the game state. He tends towards doing less and joking/trolling more than he would as town, but he's certainly capable of being serious and doing a lot as a wolf too. I don't think I ever bother trying to read him d1 in any case.
*Renata would still vote Winston, so she does if Zack pushes; Zack doesn't like Winston's latest solo post on Chox being pure/scum, though Zack is null on Chox
*In current tie Zack would vote DP;
*
P14:
*Sooh is voting Zack because he snarks, quips, and avoids answering question
*Winston complains that Zack doesn't even care whether he scum or town, just tries to paint his comments in worst light to justify keeping a vote on him
*Winston would not lynch Arakhor, could lynch DP for being different and snuggling, Al could lynch, frozen or absent, wouldn't lynch Renata tho doesn't like her justification on changing her own town metagame
*Winston would not lynch Monty, GH, Sooh, Visor, Chox, Lewwyn, probably would Zack, maybe Snerk, Csargo, Bsmith, atheotes;
*GH feels Winston gives reads with many maybes and no yesses; Winston says a yes would involve active campaigning from himself; GH says even top scumread of AlS is only could lynch, difference between could lynch and maybe is?; Winston says it's because they're the most realistic (DP and AlS) options on the maybe spectrum.
*
*
P15:
*GH: CFD on Sooh wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but I'd prefer to lynch elsewhere.
*GH wants more votes on atheotes, Arakhor looking better
*AlS wants to employ Pizza's recced strategy of multiple 2-wagons on D1
*Zack and AlS crosspost makes GH and others tinfoil
*Al Sips on Winston: Winston is obviously my scum partner, always comes to the rescue of his easily lynchable teammate, and backs out and distances himself when confronted, so typically Winston. But he already has few votes.
*GH voted DP because: Didn't like the CFD on Monty, and Dp gives us more spew than Al Sips.
*
P16:
*Winston sees AlS as likely scumbuddy of Zack
*Zack says DP vote-change for 30 sec mean nothing, but AlS looks good for not caring about selfpres
*GH thinks DP wagon looks pure, likes AlS wagon too but will stay on DP
Originally Posted by Montmorency
Re: Swords and Sorcery Mafia Without the Swords [In Play]
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