Ukraine Thread

[Brenus]

"It is not only about her political stance (although it adds spice to the issue). See above on her violating the law.

Of course.

"This is what Russia wants to hear - callous people jeer at a poor invalid and deny her right to show her talent." See, poor invalid... Deny to show her talent... You are playing on it. For what I read, she is a talented artist recognised a such in Russia before the contest. As she was chosen by the Russian public, which according to some are against Putin's Clique, I assume she has some success in her own country. So, far for been deny to show her talent. You reduce her as an invalid, implying that without being on a wheelchair, she is nothing, talentless...

This Ukrainian stupid decision is just playing right in the Russian's game, if any. And it won't be any game without Ukraine's decision to ban her.
But better to blame Putin than a ill political decision, I suppose...

[Kagemusha]

Putin doesnt care about blame. If you make a bad move in a chess game and your opponent gains advantage because of that, is the blame his? The same applies to this larger scenario in Ukraine. Russia was underestimated and they capitalized on that mistake.

[Gilrandir]

"This is what Russia wants to hear - callous people jeer at a poor invalid and deny her right to show her talent." See, poor invalid... Deny to show her talent... You are playing on it. For what I read, she is a talented artist recognised a such in Russia before the contest.

So, far for been deny to show her talent. You reduce her as an invalid, implying that without being on a wheelchair, she is nothing, talentless...

When and where did I deny her talent? She sings nicely and the song is not bad.
BUT: does Ukraine have to change/disregard its laws because a) she is talented; b) she sings well; c) she is an invalid?

As she was chosen by the Russian public, which according to some are against Putin's Clique, I assume she has some success in her own country.

The initial presupposition is wrong. She was not chosen by public. She was appointed by a jury after a closeted session and the decision was announced to the public. Do I have to say that the jury included the top officials connected with the cultural sphere who can never be against Putin's Clique since they are a part of it?

This Ukrainian stupid decision is just playing right in the Russian's game, if any. And it won't be any game without Ukraine's decision to ban her.
But better to blame Putin than a ill political decision, I suppose...

Again a wrong initial presupposition. Where did I say (or perhaps you have found any sources on that?) that Ukraine denied her entrance? The decision is still pending. I believe that the Ukrainian authorities are searching for a way out that will look most adequate and will be digestable for the community.

There are different options besides sheer ban and just letting her in (not voiced by the officials, mind you) discussed. Some people say that she should be banned but the ban should be lifted for the period of the contest where she should be allowed ONLY to stay at a hotel, attend the rehearsals and sing at the concert. After she is done she should be escorted to the airport and a stamp of banning her from visiting Ukraine for the term stipulated by the law should be put into her passport. Others say that she should be asked at crossing the border to say who Crimea belongs to - and depending on her response she should be either banned or let in. Still others suggest that at the airport she should run the guantlet between the lines of invalids who suffered injuries in Donbas and that those invalids should occupy the first two rows at the concert to serve a silent reproach to the artist who supports Russian policy towards Ukraine.

All of these are opinions from different people not responsible for the ultimate decision, but those who are (SBU) are still making up their mind (or are searching for way to explain why their desicion was the best one).

[Gilrandir]

Meanwhile, Ukraine introduced a ban on trade with "DPR" and "LPR".
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.d93929622743

[Brenus]

Again a wrong initial presupposition. Where did I say (or perhaps you have found any sources on that?) that Ukraine denied her entrance? The decision is still pending. I believe that the Ukrainian authorities are searching for a way out that will look most adequate and will be digestable for the community.

My mistake.
However, last time we had this kind of debate, when you told me that the Communist Party won't be banned, at the end, it was... So, as we say in French, boiled cat fears even cold water... It lost a bit in translation...

[Gilrandir]

My mistake.
However, last time we had this kind of debate, when you told me that the Communist Party won't be banned, at the end, it was...

Again wrong. I never said it WOUDN'T (WON'T) be banned. I said it WASN'T banned AT THAT MOMENT and that the court was considering its ban. I didn't claim anything certain about the outcome of the trial.

[Brenus]

Again wrong. I never said it WOUDN'T (WON'T) be banned. I said it WASN'T banned AT THAT MOMENT and that the court was considering its ban. I didn't claim anything certain about the outcome of the trial.

Casuist.

[Gilrandir]

Casuist.

Precisionist. You once said that it was terribly important.

[Brenus]

Precisionist. You once said that it was terribly important.

Reality check. You pretended it was not against the Communist Party. It was. Simple.