Brexit Thread

[Elmetiacos]

A new referendum is imminent?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-39422747

Now depending on how far each side is prepared to go with brinkmanship, this could be where the proverbial hits the fan.

[Kagemusha]

Apparently UK will not allow the referendum to take place before the Brexit is concluded. Such might play to the hand of the Scottish separatists.

[Husar]

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I made the point a while ago that posting a video on its own should be seen as spam.

Who is this and what debate was this? I assume it was something related to Junker's proposals

It seems he cannot tell the difference between the EU and Europe, and if the subtitles are correct he cannot tell the difference between the British and the English, either.

Also - his cleaving to "Europe" appears to be motivated primarily by fear of the "Other" and a siege mentality.

[Fragony]

Common mistake, Europe is a continent, the EU a unnecesary undemocratic atrocity. The EU is only important for the EU. They are at least consistant, it's true that if there isn't more EU there isn't as much EU after all. Can't argue with that.

It's funny to see how hysterical eurolords are. The UK will be fine and that's going to discredit their use even more. Most hilarious is Juncker (who???? well Juncker, THE. Seriously who is that, ah ok that guy who is always drunk now I know thx)

Just for hilarity's sake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPgiI46FCDU

take me to your leader!
-uhm that's him.... sorry
ok next

[Husar]

I made the point a while ago that posting a video on its own should be seen as spam.

Who is this and what debate was this? I assume it was something related to Junker's proposals

It seems he cannot tell the difference between the EU and Europe, and if the subtitles are correct he cannot tell the difference between the British and the English, either.

Also - his cleaving to "Europe" appears to be motivated primarily by fear of the "Other" and a siege mentality.

Well, in that case I'm glad that you're not a moderator.

Who that is can be found out by reading the youtube video description. I did not include it because it is not important for the message.
The Brexit itself came about due to a siege mentality, fear of the "other" and millions of British people being unable to tell the difference between a serious argument and a lie on a bus... And not to forget British people being unable to tell the difference between a troll vote and a serious vote with consequences, aka telling democracy apart from Eurovision. So what goes around comes around I guess.

[Fragony]

What comes around goes around came, it's called the Brexit. The English have little to worry about really, the EU all the more. Analysts (or rather trendwatchers) already predicted something like this 20 years ago, they put the year when the EU would economically (southern-europe) and geo-politically (the Ukraine) overstretch earlier but they weren't all that wrong, the UK would be first to leave, after that the Netherlands or the Visegrad-zone. The Netherlands is unlikely right now sadly, but the visegrad-zone isn't exactly very happy with Brussel's commands

[Pannonian]

What comes around goes around came, it's called the Brexit. The English have little to worry about really, the EU all the more. Analysts (or rather trendwatchers) already predicted something like this 20 years ago, they put the year when the EU would economically (southern-europe) and geo-politically (the Ukraine) overstretch earlier but they weren't all that wrong, the UK would be first to leave, after that the Netherlands or the Visegrad-zone. The Netherlands is unlikely right now sadly, but the visegrad-zone isn't exactly very happy with Brussel's commands

Since the English have little to worry about really, are you planning to come over here to live any time soon? This is, after all, the utopia you advocated.

[Husar]

What comes around goes around came, it's called the Brexit. The English have little to worry about really, the EU all the more. Analysts (or rather trendwatchers) already predicted something like this 20 years ago, they put the year when the EU would economically (southern-europe) and geo-politically (the Ukraine) overstretch earlier but they weren't all that wrong, the UK would be first to leave, after that the Netherlands or the Visegrad-zone. The Netherlands is unlikely right now sadly, but the visegrad-zone isn't exactly very happy with Brussel's commands

That's just islander mentality. You can go to a tiny island in the north of Germany and they will probably tell you how they "do things differently around here" and how they're "a special kind of people". Or go talk to submariners of any nation. Of course none would tell you that "we cry a lot because we're lonely" or "we are afraid of our own weakness so we prefer to be alone". It's perfectly normal to try and turn your quirks and faults into strengths because you're afraid to get eaten otherwise in this darwinistic world. The ratio of special islanders is just higher in Britain because they haven't had regular friendly contact with continentals for as long as the Netherlands.

The so-called "increase in nationalism" is just a panicking of the vanishing. It is likely not to increase any further, but to implode as it dies out and gets replaced.

[Fragony]

Maybe the islanders aren't all that stupid and your rather obvious dédain for them is, just saying.

THE offence to be given by eurocrats, 'populism!'. I'd advice them to look up what populism really means, and consider what they are themselves, no not populists, anything but, eurocrats are the exact opposite they should wear toga's really

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Since the English have little to worry about really, are you planning to come over here to live any time soon? This is, after all, the utopia you advocated.

Americans just love your accent and get all "ooooh-aaaah" about it. They automatically credit you folks with 25 IQ points more than you have if you speak with that "Eton" twang.

[Husar]

Maybe the islanders aren't all that stupid and your rather obvious dédain for them is, just saying.

Maybe you're hallucinating about what I said if you think there was "obvious disdain" in my post or that I called them "stupid", just saying.
You also saw the anti-EU forces winning in the Netherlands for a Nexit and then they got what? 13%?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631

There will be no deal.

"After reported lobbying from Spain, the EU's Brexit negotiation strategy is that decisions affecting Gibraltar will be run past the Spanish government."

That's it - the Spanish will screw us - might as well give up on a compromise now.

[Pannonian]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631

There will be no deal.

"After reported lobbying from Spain, the EU's Brexit negotiation strategy is that decisions affecting Gibraltar will be run past the Spanish government."

That's it - the Spanish will screw us - might as well give up on a compromise now.

The irony is, Gibraltar voted 96% remain.

[Fragony]

Maybe you're hallucinating about what I said if you think there was "obvious disdain" in my post or that I called them "stupid", just saying.
You also saw the anti-EU forces winning in the Netherlands for a Nexit and then they got what? 13%?

Second biggest party but nobody wants to work with them, it's (nexit supporters/general EU-haters) is going to be bigger eventually as there is a new kid in town (two really, one is loved by women, one really isn't) to harvest the Fortuyn-voters who think the Freedom-party is too extreme on some things (they are). We will see in the next elections,a nexit is now highly unlikely. But you are misinterpetating results, almost a handfull voted for being in the EU as a first thought

[Fragony]

The irony is, Gibraltar voted 96% remain.

They should be allowed to split off if they did, works both ways

[Kagemusha]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631

There will be no deal.

"After reported lobbying from Spain, the EU's Brexit negotiation strategy is that decisions affecting Gibraltar will be run past the Spanish government."

That's it - the Spanish will screw us - might as well give up on a compromise now.

So would you rather negotiate with EU or Spain?

[Husar]

Second biggest party but nobody wants to work with them, it's (nexit supporters/general EU-haters) is going to be bigger eventually as there is a new kid in town (two really, one is loved by women, one really isn't) to harvest the Fortuyn-voters who think the Freedom-party is too extreme on some things (they are). We will see in the next elections,a nexit is now highly unlikely. But you are misinterpetating results, almost a handfull voted for being in the EU as a first thought

Second biggest party but AFAIK the only one for a Nexit. Which is one reason none of the others want to work with them. Of course it's quite possible that the first thought of the voters was not to vote for the racists or to punish the workers' party, but then their second thought was obviously not to vote for the Nexiters/racists. Either way it seems clear that ~87% of the Dutch don't want to have a PVV government, which may have something to do with their party program.

[Fragony]

Nobody wants to work with them because established parties are glued to their seats like a chicken sits on it's egg. The SP (socialist party) is also strictly excluded, not part of the old-boy's netwerk, or kartel as some call it. Europhiles think the Dutch vote was pro-Brussels, forget it nobody likes Brussels except for a few rabid europhiles, and these got less votes than those who are downright anti-EU. A referendum on leaving the EU will be a very close call, I think it will become a reluctantt stay but that won't be a reason for any optimism for europhiles, like the Brittish the Dutch reallyyyyy don't like being told what to do.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

So would you rather negotiate with EU or Spain?

The Spanish want Gibraltar - we won't give them Gibraltar because the locals want to be British. The Spanish Government, given their own current domestic situation, have more to lose by "giving up" Gibraltar than by torpedoing a future UK-EU trade agreement.

So, it doesn't matter what I want, only what the Spanish want, because the British Government will not sacrifice 30,000 citizens for a deal.

[Kagemusha]

The Spanish want Gibraltar - we won't give them Gibraltar because the locals want to be British. The Spanish Government, given their own current domestic situation, have more to lose by "giving up" Gibraltar than by torpedoing a future UK-EU trade agreement.

So, it doesn't matter what I want, only what the Spanish want, because the British Government will not sacrifice 30,000 citizens for a deal.

Not really answering my question, but thank you for opening your line of thought.

As long as Britain was in EU this issue was for example a non issue as it could be moderated within EU. Now that you are outside of EU, EU can only support its member nation, in which case Britain suffers. One way or another.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Not really answering my question, but thank you for opening your line of thought.

As long as Britain was in EU this issue was for example a non issue as it could be moderated within EU. Now that you are outside of EU, EU can only support its member nation, in which case Britain suffers. One way or another.

Well, I confess I didn't quite understand it.

In any case, there will be no negotiation, we negotiated and held a Referendum on "joint sovereignty", 99% voted in favour of the status quo.

It has not been a "non issue" since then, though. Last summer the Spanish started carrying our prohibitively long checks at the border, forcing people to wait for hours in their overheating cars and Spanish Navy ships frequently violate Gibraltarn waters.

It's like with the Argentinians and the Falklands, except with ten times the British Citizens involved.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

....It's like with the Argentinians and the Falklands, except with ten times the British Citizens involved.

But with a much smaller RN.

[Kagemusha]

Well, I confess I didn't quite understand it.

In any case, there will be no negotiation, we negotiated and held a Referendum on "joint sovereignty", 99% voted in favour of the status quo.

It has not been a "non issue" since then, though. Last summer the Spanish started carrying our prohibitively long checks at the border, forcing people to wait for hours in their overheating cars and Spanish Navy ships frequently violate Gibraltarn waters.

This was before or after 23.06.2017? Dont you understand. You had a platform in EU where this kind of issues were easy to settle, but you decided to walk out from it, because of various reasons. You are now reaping what you sow and this is just a one issue. I surely hope your reasoning for Brexit will offer you more then what you are about to loose.

It's like with the Argentinians and the Falklands, except with ten times the British Citizens involved.

So you want to fight the Spanish over it?

[Fragony]

Giving up Gibraltar is a small price to pay, nothing is going to really change except cutting of a human traffic route, 'refugees' are Spain's problem if it's Spanish territory, pure win if you look at it pragmatically

[Brenus]

It's like with the Argentinians and the Falklands, except with ten times the British Citizens involved.

At least the Spanish planes won't be at the limit of their range, and their Aircraft Carrier unsinkable...

[Pannonian]

Giving up Gibraltar is a small price to pay, nothing is going to really change except cutting of a human traffic route, 'refugees' are Spain's problem if it's Spanish territory, pure win if you look at it pragmatically

You sound like the neolibs more and more. "(Whatever) is a small price to pay for upholding these theories, as I'm not the one who has to pay it."

[Fragony]

You sound like the neolibs more and more. "(Whatever) is a small price to pay for upholding these theories, as I'm not the one who has to pay it."

It's all a game and giving up Gilbraltar would be a queen-sacrifice

It's perfect, you gave up a disputed territory, you would have done enough to feed the wolves, stfu very please what more do you want???? Forces in the EU want to punish you brits you know that, they don't want other net-payers to stop paying their comfortable bliss

I prefer neo-machi btw

[Pannonian]

It's all a game and giving up Gilbraltar would be a queen-sacrifice

It's perfect, you gave up a disputed territory, you would have done enough to feed the wolves, stfu very please

I prefer neo-machi btw

Again, it's the British who are paying the price, not you. To you it is a game, as you're not among those who have to face the consequences. Just like when the neolibs instructed Yeltsin to tear his country apart with no social backup, just to see how their theories play out in the real world.

[Fragony]

Again, it's the British who are paying the price, not you. To you it is a game, as you're not among those who have to face the consequences. Just like when the neolibs instructed Yeltsin to tear his country apart with no social backup, just to see how their theories play out in the real world.

Of course tbe Dutch are going to feel the consquences, as a net-payer we are going to cough up even more to pay their despot-paradise. You have gained a lot be happy, a brexit just about reduces tarrifs from countries outside the EU with more than a little bit, the UK can make associations as they see fit, and neglect all imposed rules of that atrocious cancer that is the EU. I am so glad the UK did what it did, the Dutch love the Brits but will always obey others and I hope that stops from now, especially if the Brexit turns out to be a very very good decision. The EU is not a free market youknow, it's a protected one. It makes no sense for the UK to be part of it, half or so of your trade is gone because of tarrifs out of the Brussel-zone