SYRIA thread

[Elmetiacos]

1) You're again ignoring numerous testimonies that mention strong odor and yellow brownish cloud. Sarin is odorless and colorless.

2) The sarin found in Syria has been that produced by the government, a higher grade. Sarin used in 2013 (and possibly now together with chlorine) has been low grade, low quality.

3) doctors didn't say sarin specifically, they said some of the symptoms were consistent with a nerve agent "like sarin".

4) OPCW released a following statement after the attack: the OPCW is investigating the incident in southern Idlib under the on-going mandate of the Fact-Finding Mission (FFM), which is “to establish facts surrounding allegations of the use of toxic chemicals, reportedly chlorine, for hostile purposes in the Syrian Arab Republic”.

So, please come again about physics...

The brown cloud only suggests another related G-series nerve agent, Soman, but it doesn't make any difference for our purposes, because it is also a binary weapon and can't be released accidentally by bombing. That's the problem: not that the rebels might not have chemical weapons but that they couldn't have chemical weapons stored in a way that would allow them to be released according to the Russian version of events.

[Sarmatian]

The brown cloud only suggests another related G-series nerve agent, Soman, but it doesn't make any difference for our purposes, because it is also a binary weapon and can't be released accidentally by bombing. That's the problem: not that the rebels might not have chemical weapons but that they couldn't have chemical weapons stored in a way that would allow them to be released according to the Russian version of events.

And your explanation for the smell of bleach?

[Elmetiacos]

And your explanation for the smell of bleach?

Bleach? What are you trying to say, that there was no nerve agent used?

[Gilrandir]

And your explanation for the smell of bleach?

There might have been missiles with different chemicals used some with chlorine, some with sarin.

[rory_20_uk]

Who cares if there were gas agents or not? Do civilians care if is gas, high explosive, "shake and bake" or US cruise? To a degree, who cares if the USA is lying or not? Trump barely manages a sentence without telling a few. It is a war. Every side has killed civilians, destroyed infrastructure, and they always do.

The strategic point remains - should the West get involved in Syria or not? I would say no since we just don't have the strength of will to see if through - frankly to make the sacrifices and shed the blood required to get things resolved.Frankly, it probably isn't worth it.

And lest we think that this is all about the poor children, we manage to ignore those in Nigeria / South Sudan / Burma for years / decades.

[Gilrandir]

Who cares if there were gas agents or not? Do civilians care if is gas, high explosive, "shake and bake" or US cruise? To a degree, who cares if the USA is lying or not? Trump barely manages a sentence without telling a few. It is a war. Every side has killed civilians, destroyed infrastructure, and they always do.

Trump was looking for a pretext to interfere. And he killed two birds with one stone - his approval rating has soared and Americans seem ready to forgive his (and his team's) blunders to feel he made America great again.

[Elmetiacos]

Trump was looking for a pretext to interfere. And he killed two birds with one stone - his approval rating has soared and Americans seem ready to forgive his (and his team's) blunders to feel he made America great again.

Not true. Polls by both Gallup and CBS News show virtually no increase in his popularity after the strikes.

[Sarmatian]

Bleach? What are you trying to say, that there was no nerve agent used?

I'm saying that the thing we can be most certain about is that chlorine was used (because only that explains the smell of bleach reported by everyone). Next we can say, with a little less certainty, is that additional agent was used, probably something similar to sarin. With a lot less certainty we can say maybe there were even more types of chemical weapons used.

OPCW statement mentions only chlorine based on the preliminary reports. Until an investigation is conducted by OPCW (which probably isn't happening anytime soon as the area is controlled by Al Nusra), we can't say anything for sure.

And that is only about what type of chemicals were used. After that, an investigation about who's at fault can commence.

OR, we can ignore the experts, put our trusts in politicians and media and accept their version.

There might have been missiles with different chemicals used some with chlorine, some with sarin.

Quite possibly.