Pokemon Nuzlocke FireRed Mafia [Concluded]

[Montmorency]

I've read this sentence over three times but still can't understand it - can you rephrase?

Empathy?

You said, 'I vote Csargo, gut feel'. Then you indicated that you knew what Zack was saying when I asked for a second opinion, but that it wasn't your place to tell me.

So, you knew that Zack was claiming to have blocked Csargo. Did you realize that before you made your vote? Because if you know that someone is claiming a block on X, and you vote X on a "gut feel", then that implies you either disregard the claim in your motivation, or you didn't understand the claim at the time you placed your vote.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Empathy?

You said, 'I vote Csargo, gut feel'. Then you indicated that you knew what Zack was saying when I asked for a second opinion, but that it wasn't your place to tell me.

So, you knew that Zack was claiming to have blocked Csargo. Did you realize that before you made your vote? Because if you know that someone is claiming a block on X, and you vote X on a "gut feel", then that implies you either disregard the claim in your motivation, or you didn't understand the claim at the time you placed your vote.

What Zack was doing was pretty clear to me right away. I didn't want to come out and say it because that would be bad on a number of levels. At the same time, I knew the way I worded my posts would be something Zack picked up on and that he'd understand that I understood.

[Montmorency]

What Zack was doing was pretty clear to me right away. I didn't want to come out and say it because that would be bad on a number of levels. At the same time, I knew the way I worded my posts would be something Zack picked up on and that he'd understand that I understood.

But what about "gut feeling"?

[Logic]

I now get what Zack was saying. Considering I've had him as a likely town since day 4. I'll not give Zack a smoking gun, but I think claiming first helps here.

Vote: Csargo

The only possible alternative to Csargo is Zack. One of them is lying, and I'm hedging my bet that Zack is town, while Csargo is not. Monty can continue to tunnel GH all he wants, but we have cornered at least one wolf today.

[Logic]

And now I see Monty voted Csargo, and has stopped pressuring GH for the moment. He's also saying exactly what I just said. Fucking great.

Am I all that heavy on your shoulder, Monty?

[Logic]

And yes, I now realize I am a hypocrite for using profanity after having voiced my displeasure of it in #162 (I had to look it up.) And jumping straight to the F-Bomb, as well.

Does "Bollocks" count as profanity around here? I can't be the only American to have adopted it.

[Montmorency]

I now get what Zack was saying.

So you didn't get it as soon as you read his post?

And now I see Monty voted Csargo, and has stopped pressuring GH for the moment. He's also saying exactly what I just said. Fucking great.

Am I all that heavy on your shoulder, Monty?

I think the day was pretty much decided before you or anyone else showed up.

[GeneralHankerchief]

But what about "gut feeling"?

Cover in case Zack decided not to out. I wasn't going to be the one who did it.

[Montmorency]

Cover in case Zack decided not to out. I wasn't going to be the one who did it.

But that's the thing I don't get - it was meant to be outing, it was a public claim, and most other people appear to have understood it.

It literally makes no sense, 'I don't want to out a public claim'. It's a public claim! If you can understand without a secret code, you can presume Zack meant others to see the same. The only reason Zack (says) he didn't reformulate is because he wanted to see how I would spark and fizz. You yourself, can't rely on that out.

[GeneralHankerchief]

But that's the thing I don't get - it was meant to be outing, it was a public claim, and most other people appear to have understood it.

It literally makes no sense, 'I don't want to out a public claim'. It's a public claim! If you can understand without a secret code, you can presume Zack meant others to see the same. The only reason Zack (says) he didn't reformulate is because he wanted to see how I would spark and fizz. You yourself, can't rely on that out.

If Zack wanted to hardclaim, he would have hardclaimed.

[Logic]

So you didn't get it as soon as you read his post?

Nope.


But with "Logic's" in place of "your."

[Montmorency]

If Zack wanted to hardclaim, he would have hardclaimed.

A softclaim is still a claim. If you don't want to claim, you don't claim.

[GeneralHankerchief]

A softclaim is still a claim. If you don't want to claim, you don't claim.

What's your ultimate point that you're driving at? Right now it feels like you're shading just to shade.

[Montmorency]

What's your ultimate point that you're driving at? Right now it feels like you're shading just to shade.

I'm not shading, other than for the case where this is a horrible Kafka-esque design to torment me after retroactively deciding Zack's post was a claim, for the Csargo bus.

There's not a lot of sense to be found in the thread today.

[Csargo]

I'll take solace in the fact that Zack will be lynched next day . Goodbye cruel world!

[Zack]

I'll take solace in the fact that Zack will be lynched next day . Goodbye cruel world!

Help your fellow townies with a reads list and claim all night actions before you go.

[Zack]

And why would Csargo claim to have blocked Zack with no further comment if he understood Zack as having claimed to have blocked him?

I think he might have been trying to go for a claim battle. Knowing the night results and seeing my softish claim, he probably reckoned he had little chance of surviving the day anyways.

[Zack]

And since I'm more of a standard roleblocker, and already seeing several people with 1x block flip, Monty and Viper claiming 1x blocks was just another box to the sketchy checklist. I figured there had to be some limit to the madness for game balance reasons... three dead 1x blocks + monty + viper + my role seemed like a bit much.

[Zack]

Also, since there are 10 players left and we didn't get a "this might be lylo" warning from Pizza, there's either less than four wolves and/or some third party. I think the latter is unlikely given it's a fairly small game and khaan was already a neutral. Two would be too few considering game size and all these powers running around.

So Csargo has two partners.

[Csargo]

Help your fellow townies with a reads list and claim all night actions before you go.

I don't make lists Zack. I don't do night actions Zack. Only block Zack, Zack. Just the one time Zack. I'm all used up Zack. I can't survive Zack. Am town Zack. Why frame me Zack. Makes me sad Zack. The world was so bright Zack. Now the pokeworld is dark Zack. Full of sorrow Zack. Sadness consumes me Zack. You've caused my sadness Zack. I am used up townie Zack. End my pain Zack. Make it swift Zack. I'll see you on the other side Zack. Maybe we can be friends there Zack. I would like that Zack.

[Montmorency]

Also, since there are 10 players left and we didn't get a "this might be lylo" warning from Pizza, there's either less than four wolves and/or some third party. I think the latter is unlikely given it's a fairly small game and khaan was already a neutral. Two would be too few considering game size and all these powers running around.

So Csargo has two partners.

I figured there would be three earlier, based on roles and Khaan's flip.

If we assume for now you and GH are town, and I still like novice and Jabbz as town, then Barto, Manasi, Champ, and Logic, are partner candidates for Csargo.

So if Csargo flips scum, lynch Barto tomorrow.

[Zack]

I figured there would be three earlier, based on roles and Khaan's flip.

If we assume for now you and GH are town, and I still like novice and Jabbz as town, then Barto, Manasi, Champ, and Logic, are partner candidates for Csargo.

So if Csargo flips scum, lynch Barto tomorrow.

Before re-reading anything, Manasi or Barto probably best place to look after Csargo.

[Montmorency]

Before re-reading anything, Manasi or Barto probably best place to look after Csargo.

How can you tell with Manasi? She's definitely inconsistent, but I've never seen her scum and she fits with her town trends in French Revolution.

Champ OTOH feels like someone popping in to muddy the waters.

[Zack]

well choxorn (me) is a villager so GH as scum has no reason to draw attention to himself this way

plus the way the wagon [on GeneralHankerchief] opened up today is classic wolves early piling on the day's perceived easy mislynch, not a fan

I believe in you, Zack.

Vote: GH

Vote: GH

For killing my dreams.

I will bite.

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

I was wondering whether you received any information, and whether other players contacted you, that is all.

(I was also wondering why you use such foul language, but that is an ancillary matter).

GH and Champ are my top suspects, in that order.

Despite GH stating he was going to be gone for a long weekend, and will be unable to defend himself, I think he is the best lynch today, barring further evidence.

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

[Zack]

How can you tell with Manasi? She's definitely inconsistent, but I've never seen her scum and she fits with her town trends in French Revolution.

Champ OTOH feels like someone popping in to muddy the waters.

Calling her town in that game isn't really correct, it was a battle royale.

For one, she townread Csargo and could never give an actual reason.

For two, when I subbed in she talked about "the wim train arriving", then showed a total lack of any actual wim, only occasionally popping in to not really say anything.

My thought is she just coasted on people calling her town and her team wasn't in any trouble.

[novice]

The only possible alternative to Csargo is Zack. One of them is lying

How do you know that?

[Zack]

Can monty or someone restate the case on barto?

[novice]

OH BABY ZCAK'S HERE THE WIM TRAIN HAS ARRIVED

For two, when I subbed in she talked about "the wim train arriving", then showed a total lack of any actual wim, only occasionally popping in to not really say anything.

Yes, but she was clearly talking about you providing the wim, not her.

My thought is she just coasted on people calling her town and her team wasn't in any trouble.

Possible.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I stand by my statement about logic. I find it unlikely that scum would make the connection I did to his post or would have come up with his post in the first place. Combined with a lack of negative feels from him so far this game, I feel safe putting him 98% town.

If you want an official vote just say that and one of us can point it out to ATPG.

All reads subject to change after iso reads in the upcoming day, but this is where I view things currently.

Lock Town
Logic

Likely Town
Manasi

Unsure in no particular order
Novice
Csargo
Zack choxorn

Possible Scum
Champ
Montmorency

Scum, El Barto more sure than GHC
GeneralHankerchief
El Barto

These are the only times Jabbz interacts with or mentions Csargo all game. It's especially worth noting because he gives a fairly sizeable impressions post earlier on (here) that doesn't mention him at all.

[novice]

Can monty or someone restate the case on barto?

I can restate my case, can't speak for others:

Third party: Seireikhaan

Deceased town:
Cuthillius - Poisoner
Raith Kemmler
Sooh - Roleblocker
BSmith
Autolycus

Hot takes:

Town, in no particular order:
Logic
Jabbz - Vanilla
Manasi

Leaning town:
Montmorency - Roleblocker
SeveringViper - Roleblocker
Champ

Leaning scum (more or less by PoE):
GeneralHankerchief
El Barto - Poisoner
Csargo
choxorn Zack

Did I miss any claims?

Vote: El Barto for now.

No justification whatsoever. (!)

Not true, see the bold text.

Also:

Counterwagon to Viper. And the poison.
I also don't like how he never misses an opportunity to point out that Monty is tunneling.

So basically the poisoning of Manasi and Process of Elimination. Manasi being scum would undercut both points.