UK General Election 2017

[Tristuskhan]

Because otherwise we will be sheltering under America's Nuclear Shield, which means we really will be an American vassal - unless you prefer being a French vassal.

A French Vassal like Germany, Spain, Italy and so many smaller servants? Or maybe France doesn't ask for any oath of submission since she alone funds her nuclear strike force. And then we'll take Jersey back from the Crown.

Nuclear weapons are things we have, not things we use. This is why their maintenance has traditionally been separate from the defence budget, they are weapons of diplomacy - not war.

Is it formally so? French nukes are funded on defense budget.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

TBH I think we have too many excitable red blooded males in the country for Trident to be scrapped anytime soon, as shown by the entertaining questions completely removed from reality on QT about responding to an Iranian or N. Korean attack....

Those people don't want Corbyn to use Nuclear Weapons, they just want to know he won't upset the global strategic status quo.

That's how important Trident is, it's a question of global political significance and people want to know Corbyn is going to make political decisions divorced of any personal ideology.

[Pannonian]

Those people don't want Corbyn to use Nuclear Weapons, they just want to know he won't upset the global strategic status quo.

That's how important Trident is, it's a question of global political significance and people want to know Corbyn is going to make political decisions divorced of any personal ideology.

Corbyn proved with Trident that he'll push for his own position ahead of any agreed party position. He proved with Brexit that, first chance he gets, he'll push his own personal position ahead of manifesto position. He proved on various policies that he'll readily push a position agreed only among his inner circle, ahead of positions agreed with shadow cabinet ministers. Corbyn's Labour does not believe in cabinet government; it believes in Corbyn staking out his own private position, regardless of anything previously agreed, and Momentum backing him up. You can see on here, how every changing position is defended to the hilt by his fans. The details of any position matters less than the fact that it's Corbyn pushing it.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Corbyn proved with Trident that he'll push for his own position ahead of any agreed party position. He proved with Brexit that, first chance he gets, he'll push his own personal position ahead of manifesto position. He proved on various policies that he'll readily push a position agreed only among his inner circle, ahead of positions agreed with shadow cabinet ministers. Corbyn's Labour does not believe in cabinet government; it believes in Corbyn staking out his own private position, regardless of anything previously agreed, and Momentum backing him up. You can see on here, how every changing position is defended to the hilt by his fans. The details of any position matters less than the fact that it's Corbyn pushing it.

Yes, well Saint Jeremy can't be wrong, can he?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

We'll have found fusion power by then. Or fusion power will have found us.

Just so.

[LittleGrizzly]

Those people don't want Corbyn to use Nuclear Weapons, they just want to know he won't upset the global strategic status quo.

That's how important Trident is, it's a question of global political significance and people want to know Corbyn is going to make political decisions divorced of any personal ideology.

Against an attack from N. Korea....

Or Iran...

I assume we both understand the concept of us keeping nuclear weapons to keep ourselves safe from an attack from N. Korea or Iran is ridiculous?

I have no problem with people who have somewhat informed positions on the matter but people like that are clearly not part of that group. Probably think we can fight terrorists using them.

[LittleGrizzly]

Corbyn proved with Trident that he'll push for his own position ahead of any agreed party position. He proved with Brexit that, first chance he gets, he'll push his own personal position ahead of manifesto position. He proved on various policies that he'll readily push a position agreed only among his inner circle, ahead of positions agreed with shadow cabinet ministers. Corbyn's Labour does not believe in cabinet government; it believes in Corbyn staking out his own private position, regardless of anything previously agreed, and Momentum backing him up. You can see on here, how every changing position is defended to the hilt by his fans. The details of any position matters less than the fact that it's Corbyn pushing it.

This is the person who took a post of mine and bolded one name because I used it excessively apparently as part of some proof that Corbyn fans are somehow obsessive...

There certainly is an obsession but it seems to be more in his opponents, this one in particular.

[Pannonian]

Against an attack from N. Korea....

Or Iran...

I assume we both understand the concept of us keeping nuclear weapons to keep ourselves safe from an attack from N. Korea or Iran is ridiculous?

I have no problem with people who have somewhat informed positions on the matter but people like that are clearly not part of that group. Probably think we can fight terrorists using them.

I refer to the near namesakes Bevin and Bevan. One of whom demanded nuclear weapons, the other supported them. And Attlee, who gave the go ahead. Do they count as informed opinions?

[LittleGrizzly]

Sure, I can't say I have read their exact arguments on why but I imagine they were far better arguments than an attack from a then day equivalent of N. Korea or Iran. To clarify I wasn't saying we should get rid of Trident because idiots on QT think we needed them for N. Korea and Iran, just that we won't get rid of them because many people don't understand what they are actually for.

[Beskar]

Yes, well Saint Jeremy can't be wrong, can he?

Given the overgenerous press of Weak and Wobbly Mway and constant negativity of Corbyn for over two years.. he hasn't been given the 'Saint'-ly treatment of the pair.

Though Theresa May's ineptitude in the Home Office (and as Prime Minister) is definitely making itself clearer.

It has turned what was a initially an easy win by a landslide, into a hung parliament (according to polls). That takes some serious craftsmanship to achieve. Especially with manifesto u-turns within 24 hours (cue: Dementia Tax)

[LittleGrizzly]

I think it worked out for the best with the press going at Corbyn so hard so early on, they haven't really left themselves much room to have a go at him now without repeating or going over the same complaints about him being scruffy or principled. Overplayed their hands in the hope of getting him out early.

[Pannonian]

Given the overgenerous press of Weak and Wobbly Mway and constant negativity of Corbyn for over two years.. he hasn't been given the 'Saint'-ly treatment of the pair.

Though Theresa May's ineptitude in the Home Office is definitely making itself clearer.

May's incompetence leaves me with zero trust in her ability to be PM. Corbyn's incompetence in opposition makes me trust him even less. I've said before, Blair circa 1997 would run up a 200 seat majority against the abysmal current Tory front bench. Only Corbyn could make May look remotely good. And only May could make Corbyn look remotely decent. Where are the Clarkes and Heseltines of May's cabinet? Where are the Browns and Cooks of Corbyn's shadow cabinet?

[Beskar]

I think it worked out for the best with the press going at Corbyn so hard so early on, they haven't really left themselves much room to have a go at him now without repeating or going over the same complaints about him being scruffy or principled. Overplayed their hands in the hope of getting him out early.

It just entrenches his supporters further. The same happened with UKIP, except now UKIP is given prime time slots everywhere whilst not even having a sitting MP, unlike the Green party for example.

[Pannonian]

It just entrenches his supporters further. The same happened with UKIP, except now UKIP is given prime time slots everywhere whilst not even having a sitting MP, unlike the Green party for example.

Momentum are already well entrenched, with fortifications going into the Earth's mantle. That's what the post-truth politics consists of. Hell, even Corbyn recognises this, although his fans still do not.

[Beskar]

As PFH likes the Telegraph, let's look at this article:
David Cameron's former aide Steve Hilton calls on Theresa May to resign over terror 'failures'

[Beskar]

Entering number 4 in the UK Charts is the song "Liar Liar", a song that was promptly banned from being aired by the BBC.

Why is a top new single banned? Because it calls out Theresa May for being a 'Liar Liar'.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Given the overgenerous press of Weak and Wobbly Mway and constant negativity of Corbyn for over two years.. he hasn't been given the 'Saint'-ly treatment of the pair.

Though Theresa May's ineptitude in the Home Office (and as Prime Minister) is definitely making itself clearer.

It has turned what was a initially an easy win by a landslide, into a hung parliament (according to polls). That takes some serious craftsmanship to achieve. Especially with manifesto u-turns within 24 hours (cue: Dementia Tax)

Corbyn's early bad press was much of his own making. The Professional politician on TV today is a far cry from the man in the rumpled shirt and t-shirt he was when he was elected. A man who appeared to take no care over his appearance asking to be given care of the country, a political rebel suddenly demanding personal loyalty. Then came traingate - a scandal entirely of his own making, one which his supporters just ignored because they agreed with his point even if he had lied on camera to make it.

Then there's the scandal of his separating from his wife and giving her "sole responsibility" for schooling their children so that he doesn't have to make the decision over whether his son goes to a terrible Comp or the local Grammar.

Then there's his links to the IRA, Anti-Semites and Holocaust deniers.

Then, just last week he lied when he said he didn't take advantage of free Further Education, although others had, when defending his plan to abolish Tuition Fees. In fact, he attended a Polytechnic but left because he didn't agree with the syllabus on the political course he took. Even at 20 Jeremy knew better than his lecturers.

I think he's had an easier ride of it than he could have.

As to the Dementia Tax - commentary on that has been inaccurate, unfair, unrealistic and entirely misleading. In the future the majority of people needing professional care will go into a home eventually, like my Nan, so it doesn't matter when you include the value of their house - because they'll have to sell it eventually one way or the other.

[Brenus]

Don't forget: He is Putin's friend, admires Chavez, support Castro... I think I forgot nothing...

[LittleGrizzly]

Interesting to see that the attitudes towards the two party leaders are shifting as well, the more they see of May the less they like her, the more they see of Corbyn, the more they like him.

[Pannonian]

Don't forget: He is Putin's friend, admires Chavez, support Castro... I think I forgot nothing...

He went to a Stop the War fundraiser (whilst Labour leader) a month after they said that the Parisians had brought their attacks on themselves. What is the StWC's position on the recent UK attacks?

[Pannonian]

Interesting to see that the attitudes towards the two party leaders are shifting as well, the more they see of May the less they like her, the more they see of Corbyn, the more they like him.

Both are utter shite, as are their front benches.

[LittleGrizzly]

To be the honest the information I'm seeing says something completely different... although the link to the original doesn't work...

----------------------------------------
The anti-war pressure group came under intense fire from Labour MPs after it posted a blog on its website titled: "Paris reaps whirlwind of western support for extremist violence in Middle East".
----------------------------------------------------------

English has only been a first language for 30 or so years but that sounds a lot different from what you said...

At least when you call him scruffy you are being factual.

[LittleGrizzly]

Both are utter shite, as are their front benches.

One of them more people seem to like the more they see of him though, well people other than you.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Don't forget: He is Putin's friend, admires Chavez, support Castro... I think I forgot nothing...

I'm sure you could dig up more.

All of this whilst he was in the "political wilderness" too, so he's either an egomaniac convinced he has more swing than he does, or he's actually supportive, or ambivalent, towards their methods.

Oh... and he thinks Russia Today is a quality news channel.

One of them more people seem to like the more they see of him though, well people other than you.

Corbyn has had a good campaign, but a certain amount of this is May's awkwardness making him look good by comparison. He would not be getting so much of a bounce facing Cameron.

[Sarmatian]

He went to a Stop the War fundraiser (whilst Labour leader) a month after they said that the Parisians had brought their attacks on themselves. What is the StWC's position on the recent UK attacks?

Stop the War never said that. They said that western violent interventions in the region, coupled with military and financial support to extremist Muslim sects (through Saudi Arabia), has brought hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths and general instability in the region. The power vacuum was filled by extremists and terrorists, which caused or contributed to an increase of terrorist attacks in western nations, France included.

Article is spot on. Even if you subscribe to the notion that there is nothing political about ISIS, just pure irrational hatred of the west, surely you understand that without intervention in Iraq and support for anti-Assad forces, ISIS wouldn't exist.

In addition, one doesn't have to agree with the opinion of every single member of an organization to support the general principles of that organization.

[LittleGrizzly]

Corbyn has actual appeal, I am sure there are enthusiastic May voters out there but they are very few in number. After years of Cameron/Blair I think a lot of people are excited about an actual alternative. May is no doubt helping but I can't imagine the others Labour might have fielded (if Labour voters weren't allowed to pick) doing this well.

[Pannonian]

Corbyn has actual appeal, I am sure there are enthusiastic May voters out there but they are very few in number. After years of Cameron/Blair I think a lot of people are excited about an actual alternative. May is no doubt helping but I can't imagine the others Labour might have fielded (if Labour voters weren't allowed to pick) doing this well.

Let's see what result Corbyn can achieve then, if people prefer him to Blair. Blair's worst electoral result was a Commons majority of 66. He twice achieved a Commons majority of 160+. Let's see if Corbyn can better these results.

[Pannonian]

I'm sure you could dig up more.

All of this whilst he was in the "political wilderness" too, so he's either an egomaniac convinced he has more swing than he does, or he's actually supportive, or ambivalent, towards their methods.

Oh... and he thinks Russia Today is a quality news channel.

Corbyn has had a good campaign, but a certain amount of this is May's awkwardness making him look good by comparison. He would not be getting so much of a bounce facing Cameron.

Blair would have absolutely marmalised May.

[LittleGrizzly]

Let's see what result Corbyn can achieve then, if people prefer him to Blair. Blair's worst electoral result was a Commons majority of 66. He twice achieved a Commons majority of 160+. Let's see if Corbyn can better these results.

Sorry I didn't realise Blair did so well and was so popular in 2017, I must be getting confused with some other widely despised former leader who wouldn't come anywhere near winning even the Labour party nomination let alone a general election these days....

[Pannonian]

Sorry I didn't realise Blair did so well and was so popular in 2017, I must be getting confused with some other widely despised former leader who wouldn't come anywhere near winning even the Labour party nomination let alone a general election these days....

Yup, this is what the Labour party has descended into. I had considered holding my nose and voting Labour anyway, but after this reminder of how the Labour party is nothing more than Corbyn's personal cult nowadays, that's not going to be the case.