Trump Thread

[Strike For The South]

These people need food, healthcare, and jobs. It is no wonder they voted for the "outsider" populist.

Also, it would be a mistake to waste time an inordinate time on these people.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Trump's victory, at its core, was payback to the dems for more or less abandoning their status as the party of the "working man." Too many dems play the Wall Street Shuffle (ask Bernie, he'll tell you!) or get lost in a mosaic of little interest groups. There is political power in the aggregate of those smaller interest groups, and they do trend left -- but the working class used to be a real core element for the Dems. Not so anymore.

[Montmorency]

These people need food, healthcare, and jobs. It is no wonder they voted for the "outsider" populist.

Also, it would be a mistake to waste time an inordinate time on these people.

Trump's victory, at its core, was payback to the dems for more or less abandoning their status as the party of the "working man." Too many dems play the Wall Street Shuffle (ask Bernie, he'll tell you!) or get lost in a mosaic of little interest groups. There is political power in the aggregate of those smaller interest groups, and they do trend left -- but the working class used to be a real core element for the Dems. Not so anymore.

When I make my comment, I don't mean adjusting Democratic policies along the lines of "The Politics of Evasion" - that has arguably been devastating to the long-term health of the party. I'm pointing out that these people are generally isolated from the media and interpersonal channels the Democrats use to spread their message, and so become a kind of second-hand legend rather than something to be perceived and judged. My suggestion entails what you might call 'counter-propaganda', to saturate the channels of knowing and learning common to the localities and their people, not just as campaigning messages, but at all times over the long-term in the living environment. The effect should be for Democratic ideas and thinking to take root into their consciousness and affect their belief systems, in a way that can't be accomplished by a direct or discrete "message".

It's satisfying to think of these people as apathetic simpletons who can't change and can't be persuaded to think critically, but to the extent that democratic principles are favored they can't just be shed or repressed. To some extent their engagement and incorporation is what guarantees the viability of left-wing policy or ideals.

[spmetla]

It would help if the Democrats weren't the party of the social-justice crusader stereotype too. Being the party of everyone that is not the majority is a good way to pat yourself on the back and feel self righteous but it won't win elections. The economic solutions from both parties aren't too different but when you talk with joe-schmoe he generally doesn't even know the details of either parties economic policies but will know and have an opinion on gender-neutral bathrooms etc...

Bear in mind that enough people that rely on the ACA want Obama-Care repealed due to their not knowing it's one and the same due to very effective propaganda by one side and a failure to address it on the other.

[Montmorency]

It would help if the Democrats weren't the party of the social-justice crusader stereotype too. Being the party of everyone that is not the majority is a good way to pat yourself on the back and feel self righteous but it won't win elections. The economic solutions from both parties aren't too different but when you talk with joe-schmoe he generally doesn't even know the details of either parties economic policies but will know and have an opinion on gender-neutral bathrooms etc...

That's a culture-war question, not one of party policy. The Democrats can't hope to win over white voters by silencing minority voices; so it would be doing the hypocritical thing, for no profit. The smart money with social transformations is staying the course until the aggrieved can no longer "remember why I was even angry". The real policy challenge is digesting the hard core of atavists who disagree with every post-Civil War policy other than Jim Crow.

[spmetla]

Staying the course for the long term is the correct policy for them but they seem to try and make the changes far quicker than people in "fly over country" care to accommodate. They are right on LGBT but to paint it in the same light and nobility as the womens suffrage movement or civil rights movement is foolish. Look at today's military transgender policy announcement by Trump, it accomplished it's goal because that's topic number one right now on MSNBC instead of the health care bill which is far more important.

They don't need to silence minority voices but that doesn't need to be their primary platform which runs strong in Universities and the coastal states.

You are right one point two, there are no shortage of folks in the South that see Jim Crow laws as correct and see all the woes of the black community as self inflicted.

If they marketed themselves more as the party that'll protect them from corporate greed and from having to compete with sweat shop workers they'd probably win more votes. Look at the fall out from the 2008 crash, it gave Obama and the Democrats the momentum he needed to make major reforms. They however couldn't secure a win because the Republicans drowned out their successes by doing the culture war propaganda which is not answered in kind.

The repeal of don't ask don't tell and the trans-gender integration while both justify were implemented in such a way that the right is able to market it as the Democrats sacrificing military readiness for the sake of social experimentation. I had to brief my platoon and then company of infantrymen on the implementation of each of these (as well as women being allowed into combat arms) which were by and large badly taken of course. Neither resulted in any loss of readiness but today my facebook feed is inundated by my happy fellow servicemen celebrating the end of a policy that had literally no effect on them besides sitting in a briefing on it's implementation.

The Democrats may have policies that are beneficial to most Americans but the ability of the Republicans to paint them as social experimenting war on Christian values socialists they will not get those white male working class people that reliably vote to vote for them. There's no need to abandon those policies just don't make them the forefront while painting all those that oppose them as back woods ignorant rednecks bigots (even if true).

[Montmorency]

Staying the course for the long term is the correct policy for them but they seem to try and make the changes far quicker than people in "fly over country" care to accommodate. They are right on LGBT but to paint it in the same light and nobility as the womens suffrage movement or civil rights movement is foolish. Look at today's military transgender policy announcement by Trump, it accomplished it's goal because that's topic number one right now on MSNBC instead of the health care bill which is far more important.

They don't need to silence minority voices but that doesn't need to be their primary platform which runs strong in Universities and the coastal states.

You are right one point two, there are no shortage of folks in the South that see Jim Crow laws as correct and see all the woes of the black community as self inflicted.

If they marketed themselves more as the party that'll protect them from corporate greed and from having to compete with sweat shop workers they'd probably win more votes. Look at the fall out from the 2008 crash, it gave Obama and the Democrats the momentum he needed to make major reforms. They however couldn't secure a win because the Republicans drowned out their successes by doing the culture war propaganda which is not answered in kind.

The repeal of don't ask don't tell and the trans-gender integration while both justify were implemented in such a way that the right is able to market it as the Democrats sacrificing military readiness for the sake of social experimentation. I had to brief my platoon and then company of infantrymen on the implementation of each of these (as well as women being allowed into combat arms) which were by and large badly taken of course. Neither resulted in any loss of readiness but today my facebook feed is inundated by my happy fellow servicemen celebrating the end of a policy that had literally no effect on them besides sitting in a briefing on it's implementation.

The Democrats may have policies that are beneficial to most Americans but the ability of the Republicans to paint them as social experimenting war on Christian values socialists they will not get those white male working class people that reliably vote to vote for them. There's no need to abandon those policies just don't make them the forefront while painting all those that oppose them as back woods ignorant rednecks bigots (even if true).

But it's still a function of channels of information dissemination. These channels have a funneling property that creates an inflated impression of a given policy's value and importance to the originators of that policy, leaving consumers to adopt the monomania they come to believe the government applies to its more matter-of-course activities. It's not about how much Democrats care, but how much Republicans think Democrats care. After all, transgender toilet rules are not a single-issue motivator like abortion or gun control retrenchment are. Counter-propaganda would correct the effect, but the question is how to do it. Without grassroots activists to condition the learning, the necessary level of persistent funding simply doesn't exist.